with ποΈ Steven Kohn β CEO & Founder @ Wisewater
π§ Wisewater aims to provide simple and seamless devices to better conserve our most precious resource, (aka water).
What we covered:
π How water scarcity is unfortunately here to stay, and what this involves politically but also in terms of water costs
π Yes, we can all do something about it, and actually every day!Β
π The steps Steven & Wisewater followed to come up with their first smart device
π The truths about water that we tend to forget within the comfort of our modern societies
π₯ β¦ and of course, we concluded with the π§ππ₯ππ πππ§π π¦πͺππ¨π©ππ€π£π¨ π₯Β
Resources:
β‘οΈ Send your warm regards to Steven on LinkedIn
β‘οΈ Visit Wisewaterβs website
is on Linkedin β‘οΈ
Full Transcript:
These are computer generated, so expect some typos π
Antoine Walter:
So, Hey Steven, welcome to the show. Awesome.
Steven Kohn:
Thanks so much for having me pleasure to be here. Well,
Antoine Walter:
Actually, you know, I love starting with a postcard and being French, watching NBA from time to time. So I was thinking for once I have someone from Brooklyn and Brooklyn seems to be the hot place this year when it comes to basketball. So how confident are you that you finally get that title this year?
Steven Kohn:
You know, itβs so funny. I grew up in a Knicks fan and the last time the Knicks were in the news, I think it was because Reggie Miller was in the news. So itβs nice to have not only some talent, but I would dare say the newest super team in the NBA, you know, kind of rough around the corner. So looking forward to catching some games,
Antoine Walter:
Not that people would think that I turn that podcast into a sport podcast, but you mentioned that the Knicks and the Knicks have a French guy, which actually grew up just some kilometers away from my home. So I was like, you know, itβs going to be the next big star and that didnβt turn that good for him. So you have another French guy in the nets. I hope heβs making better,
Steven Kohn:
Hopefully, hopefully,
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Antoine Walter:
But that being said, letβs focus on our topic of today. And actually Iβd like to start with you. I was reading your bio on LinkedIn and I was impressed by your path. To be honest, there are many ventures there and from an outsider perspective, which is my perspective right now, I see sustainability, I see entrepreneurship. And it was wondering if thatβs a good summary to say that those two main areas define what you do today. So I was wondering how would you introduce yourself?
Steven Kohn:
Yeah, definitely. I would be thrilled if I was associated with being a successful sustainable entrepreneur. I was studying sustainability without really realizing it before grad school. And then I actually got my masters in sustainability entrepreneurially. Thatβs kind of come to fruition. You know, obviously the job market is not ideal these past few years, but I was looking to make a difference and I had a couple of great positions where I felt like I was in the right industry. Right. Like I believe in solar, obviously I believe in energy efficiency, I believe in compost, you know, that should be most businesses should be incorporating all of those things if not every home, but the opportunities in the job market or not giving me the autonomy or maybe the problem solving responsibilities I wanted. So without realizing it, I was kind of honing in on a bit more of a entrepreneurial endeavor. And I think thatβs kind of why Iβm where Iβm at now.
Antoine Walter:
So basically youβre creating that space that you didnβt find somewhere else. So you are the change that you, you, you wanted to see from a resume it that way
Steven Kohn:
In a very individual career sense. Yes, sir. I am. I, you could definitely say that. Trying to manifest my own ideal role. Yeah.
Antoine Walter:
Itβs the hummingbird metaphor. We all have to do our part if we want to achieve something at the end. So exactly youβre doing your part.
Steven Kohn:
I want to be part of, so
Antoine Walter:
Actually I was intrigued by your subtitle on LinkedIn, which is sustainable entrepreneur. And if I want to be a bit provocative, Iβm wondering if there is today an entrepreneur that could not be sustainable because actually yeah. Sustainable covers this aspect of building something. So yeah. W whatβs your take, there shouldnβt any modern entrepreneur being sustainable,
Steven Kohn:
You know, Antoine, thatβs so interesting that you say it like that because this is the first time anyoneβs ever asked me that question or kind of posed it like that. I being a, I guess I consider myself a sustainable entrepreneur. That makes sense to me. However, no oneβs ever suggested itβs redundant, which I think is great. That youβre, that youβre putting like that sadly. No. How many businesses out there are not doing right by the environment are doing right by the community or even doing right by as far as the hourly pay and the, and the wages that there are, people are being paid. Sadly, you know, every single corporation in their right mind is going to pay hommage to the eco-friendly movement, sustainability climate change. You just have, you know, we recently just had our super bowl. So if you want to watch you know, you see the most heartfelt community hard work and folks based commercial, and then itβs, you know, bank of America or Toyota or something, you know, so everyone acknowledges and wants to, as we say, in the industry kind of greenwash themselves. But I would say very few companies are actually walking the walk, or I should say very few entrepreneurs are seeking out to be truly sustainable in the triple bottom line sense.
Antoine Walter:
Yeah. Iβm hoping for the new generation of entrepreneurs to be a bit different to that extent, but
Steven Kohn:
You nailed it. I think if you asked the average entrepreneur from 25 years ago, theyβd say, what is sustainability? And now youβre absolutely right. I think youβd be hard pressed to find a new modern entrepreneur under, you know, kind of in our age generation that is not incorporating some sort of sustainability and social awareness into their mission statement and their business model.
Antoine Walter:
Letβs hope at least that we are we right in back. Cause thatβs you also state that you are a problem-solver and thatβs going to be my smooth transition. Watch me do that. So what is the problem that you aim to solve with your smart pedal?
Steven Kohn:
What a seamless segue. Thank you, Anton. Thatβs such a, thatβs like the number one question and itβs two-fold right. So the smart shower device, my startup, the smart shower by wise water is ultimately addressing to what we like to call pain points. Right? You can talk about that in a sales interview or a public service, or, you know, a policy point of view. Thereβs two pain points Iβm trying to address with our startup one, the dramatically increasing scarcity we find with freshwater. So if you look on the UN United nations website, theyβll talk about the sustainable development goals, which are kind of shaping their, you know, kind of spearheading their efforts for the next decade. Many of them, I think like at least a quarter of them are watermelon. And a lot of them are doing are related to water scarcity over 3 billion people go without water or enough water throughout the year at certain times.
And over a billion people live in agriculturally water scarce areas, which is the sort of thing that led to the, you know, the civil war and eventual, you know, the water Wars in ex in Yemen and then Bolivia a couple of years prior. So itβs very quick where water scarcity is tied to national health and then national security, sadly, even more so the energy. And so obviously any and all devices that can seamlessly without making people bend over backwards to their donor life that can reduce our demand on fresh water supply every day is going to be huge. Getting those into houses, going to be one thing, getting that into businesses that utilize a lot of traffic in this capacity. Now weβre talking about a much larger ripple effect. So the one hand are Wisewater smart, shower wants to affect water scarcity. Weβre holding.
Weβre going to be one of many tools that addresses this growing concern. The second aspect, which is responded to the water scarcity is the growing cost of water. Thatβs again for home and facility owners and almost half a dozen cities. Now in the U S weβre looking at an average water bill of over $200 a month, which is not only a, I want to say over 50% increase from 10 years ago, but also borderline unattainable for a lot of working class families. Not that thereβs a lot of working-class families left in cities like New York and San Francisco, but this just reinforces that thereβs not a place for them in these cities, which is a crime in itself. So just adjacent, just immediately kind of riding the coattails of scarcity. We have a dramatic and growing increase in cost and therefore access to clean water. So again, any and all tools in the toolbox that can help reduce conserve the usage of fresh water will then translate to a dramatic reduction in utility costs, whether thatβs for facilities and or homeowners. So our smart shower is hoping to, you know, trying to conserve fresh water and also conserve our utility bills in the same retrofit.
Antoine Walter:
Thatβs the tool. But letβs define that tool. What is it actually, how does it work?
Steven Kohn:
Of course. So what a great question. Thank you. So specifically our Wisewater smart shower is a retrofittable device. Itβs actually self powered by the water flow itself. And what you do is you, you take off your shower, head, you put on this device, or weβre hoping itβs gonna be the size of roughly, you know, a Coke can maybe a little bit smaller you or a soda can, rather than you put your shower, head back on. Now itβs fully installed. Thatβs it. Once you turn the shower on, no water will actually come out. Itβs not until you hit our foot pedal thatβs on the ground. Thatβs when the water is going to come out. Okay. So what this now does is itβs turning a classically automatic and all their say wasteful process into a manually controlled and conservation based process. Right? A lot of people, I think the average shower time is like, is like eight to nine minutes.
Weβre using approximately three gallons a minute, right? So letβs say if youβre in there eight to 10 minutes, you probably only need water for five or six. So letβs say youβve installed a low flow shower head. We used to use five gallons per minute. Now weβre using two and a half, so youβve cut it in half right now. What if you started using zero gallons per minute for four to five minutes of that shower, right? This is what they do on submarines is what my grandpa was yelling at me to do at his house. Anyway, you know, this is, this is a more, thereβs more of a, an old-school conservation based shower, which is not what showers are today, showers on this luxurious stress-relieving, you know, nice thing to do, especially in a day, Iβm looking out my window and itβs 25 degrees outside. So I will be looking forward to taking my time in the shower today.
However, in water scarce areas like California, New Mexico, central America, most of the equatorial hemisphere, weβre talking about places where water is so scarce, that comfort and convenience and stress. These are not the key. Weβre talking about control and conservation of water. So our shower pedal is going to turn a automatic flow into a controlled conservative flow. The default is stop. And when you press the pedal, it comes on. So only when you pass the pedal will come out. So if you put this in gyms, you put this in hotels, you put this in school, dormitories, these places where end users are not necessarily connected to the cost or the climate impact, shall we say the water footprint of their showers. Now, all of a sudden you give them a chance to stop and start their water. Really helping them reduce their water footprint.
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Antoine Walter:
Iβm impressed because you re passionated about the subject. So I could let you flow for 20 minutes, but I have to catch you because, you know, I have to be the contrarian here. Of course, I was just wondering, you know, how did you come up with the ID of the smart shower and this smart pedal? Because the problem you are exposing is a problem. Many companies have addressed the problem in the sense that they identified, or they acknowledge the problem. There is water scarcity, and thereβs a high cost of water, and then thereβs many ways to address it. And then Iβm wondering, how did you come with that idea?
Steven Kohn:
So I, I would love to say that it was a completely original creative idea that I had after working long hours of brainstorming. However, in reality, itβs something that I experienced in two separate places. I was, Iβm lucky enough to have been able to travel to Europe. When I graduated undergrad must, mustβve been 2005, 2006. And then I saw a similar device in the Florida keys when I was working in AmeriCorps. So what this device was, again, I got in the shower, turn the water on, stood there for 10 seconds, feeling like a bit of a doofus. Wondering why, because if you can hear the water, right, you can hear the water flowing. And Iβm like, what is going on? And I look up and thereβs a sign that says, pull string for water and above right above my head. Like youβre pulling the light string in the basement or an attic.
Steven Kohn:
Thereβs a little rostering. And when you pull that string down, thatβs when the water comes out. So this was basically taking a water fountain or what I would see as like a water fountain approach to a shower head. Right. Itβs requiring you to, certainly you turn on, you use the conventional tools, but itβs not until you engage that secondary lever with your hand that you get the water. So I saw this again in the keys at, at a bungalow, like a Marine center non-profit we were staying at for a few weeks and I go, this is so great until you have to do all the shower stuff that you normally do with one hand, all of a sudden, this very brilliant conservation tool. Youβre like, okay, this is great, but now Iβm going to be here an extra couple of minutes. Cause Iβm trying to get, you know, she had to go out of my head with one hand, which Iβm less good at.
And so in my mind, I think weβll, you know, take a sewing machine, which is purposely done at the foot pedal so that you can have two hands ready for sewing. In this case, if you just take that, you know, you could make a very makeshift drawstring. Thatβs kind of a prototype I had in the garage a few years ago, a string to a small piece of wood, and youβve ultimately done that. But what we wanted to do, we actually created a pneumatic bladder and have a small tube that runs down. So itβs really connected and really tight to a mechanical spring valve. And so thatβs actually going to allow you to stop and start the water, but also have two hands free to do whatever you need to do in the shower.
Antoine Walter:
But that means your original ID dates back to that travel in 2005 or 2006, and then it evolved in your head. And when was the turning point where you said, I have to do something about that.
Steven Kohn:
So all the random thoughts didnβt really come together in my head as like the transformer style until 2013. Iβll say when I had an opportunity to engage in an entrepreneurial contest with NYU, where I graduated my masters. So I was like, Oh, this could actually be a good idea. And that was the first time that I realized how not flushed out this idea was, but I got a lot of great feedback. That was the first time I heard that like, well, why donβt you make a pneumatic bladder instead? And theyβre like, why donβt you make a attached to IOT app? And I took all those things down. And by 2014, 2015, I was actively seeking funding, getting bank loans, getting my LLC going. And here we are now. Yeah, I guess I was lucky enough to really hone in on it in 2013 through a school contest at school.
Antoine Walter:
No, thatβs interesting because itβs a bit this concept by, by Gary Halbert, I think who said he was putting some stuff, some ideas into a shoe box and letting it in the shoe box, not doing anything about it. So it was taking, cutting out media pieces papers and putting it into the shoe box. And then one day it could be some days later or some weeks or some months it would return to the shoe box and his brain would have processed all these elements. And finally he had the brilliant ID and somehow thatβs the way our brains work. So for you, that was eight years.
Steven Kohn:
Yeah, I think I like to call it a simmering process. I see a similar thing happened with albums. Thereβs one song I love. And then Iβm like, ah, you know, I really want to rush that song. And then months later I might come back and go, why did I never give this song a chance? And all of a sudden your tastes have changed. The flavors have kind of melded a little bit. So time really does help kind of hone in and focus the idea thatβs really there for sure.
Antoine Walter:
No, we felt we were a bit fast-forward to what I saw on your, on your website. What was interesting to me with your, your concept is that itβs at the same time, pretty low tech. I mean, as you just described, you are replacing and refurbishing something on the shower heads and you have a pedal like a sewing machine and on the other end, itβs pretty high-tech because you also have that IOT element inside. So can you maybe guide us through that paradox if I might say so?
Steven Kohn:
Yeah, no, I love the idea of the paradox, but also it is by design. So Hey, thank you for noticing that kind of the dichotomy and that I think is one of our strengths at whitewater or of the smart shower device. If you will. If I was to pull out my investor deck, I can show you one of our slides actually addresses that we have four different models and those four models basically range from the most, shall I say, low end, which is just our stop and start device. Or itβs even more durable. This is for off the grid. This is for camping. This is for RVs, right? Where there is no IOT, thereβs no fancy schmancy led screen, if you will. And thatβs just conservation based and thatβs also going to be our most economical option, right? So then you have something thatβs just the meter, right?
Maybe you have a demographic that loves the data, loves the cause. You know, because everythingβs smart is sexy these days to investors. And you know, if you say you have, I have the nest of XYZ, then like, be like, Oh, Iβm listening, Iβm listening. Right. So if you say I have the nest of your shower, they go, okay, Iβm listening. So we like to think of it like that because we arenβt getting a bunch of control and a bunch of data. So the spectrum includes the most economical, the most basic conservation based. We have one that addresses the more trendy and more still valuable data trend where there is also the behavior nudge. And then of course the classic prototype has both, right. Youβll have the stop and start feature. Youβll also have an led display in the shower with, so in case you donβt care or not, youβre still going to see a screen or, you know, something blink or a thing that says, Hey, do you use 11 minutes with water?
Something like that. So the end user has to hear it in addition to an app that if youβre a homeowner facility owner, obviously you have your in-depth data. Thatβs organized on the website. And then at the most high end, you have the classic, both features the stop and start in the IOT. But we also do like a motion sensor or a voice activated. So itβd be like, Alexa, helping put your shower together, or even something motion sensor kind of envisioning like a the nice sinks that are like a movie theater or a lobby where you just put your hands on and water comes out. Well, if you have a rainfall shower, you can just step under and out of. I mean, now youβre talking the most seamless way of really maximizing your savings and not compromising your shower, quality or comfort at all. Youβre literally stepping six inches left and right. You couldnβt be easier to save water at that point.
Antoine Walter:
Well, I can fully imagine that, but I mentioned I have to be the contractor. And so Iβm going to be a piece of the contract and trust me, of course, I love everything. Thatβs digital. And to an extent thatβs sometimes itβs ridiculous and my wife could tell, but you mentioned something electrically construct, you mentioned investors are interested. If you come with the nest of something, I think in other areas might be the Netflix or something or Uber of something. Is it something which is a need to raise the interest of the investors? Or do you think itβs still possible nowadays to come with something which is a sturdy low-tech product that has really no digital aspect.
Steven Kohn:
So youβve now asked the question, are we making for the critics or for the artists, right? You really hold it on the basic philosophy, perhaps the two types of entrepreneurs. Do you design something for the investors or do you design something for the cause? And what I like to do, what I think was the most entrepreneurial thing to do was Iβm catering to both in that the suite of technologies will address a wide spectrum of demographics, right? So for every high-end Alexa or Google assist, smart shower, we sell, we can get three or four low impact shower, pedals out to people in water scarce areas. Right? And if Iβm talking to some people who have zero interest in climate change, but are all about data, then in order for me to maximize the impact of my water saving technologies, then it might do me some justice to just slightly counter my approach, read the room and say, sustainability, sustainability, have I got the newest nest device for you?
And Iβve I got I have a fun new app and just any, yet people save water. But talk about the ESG ratings that youβll get. If you put this in your hotel, you know what I mean? So I might have to pivot a little bit in my approach, but all of this is to sell shower pedals. Actually, we used to sell smart showers. If I, the more smart showers I sell, the more water we save. End of story. And so I donβt want to throw out a low cost impactful aspect of the spectrum just because we can make more on the high end. Iβm a fan of the Preto principle addressing that you canβt just do a few people for the highest profit. If you really trying to be a sustainable entrepreneur and not be, you know, a hypocrite in that sense, you have to address the problem too. So I see a place for empire. Iβm not burning my candle from both ends, but I do see a place for appeasing people with who are writing the checks and also still making a difference for people who have to walk two miles a day for clean water. I hope itβs not lofty, but that is the goal. Yeah,
Antoine Walter:
It makes total sense. Yeah. Excellent answer to my tricky question, you know, when, so you, you, your device, what it made me think of, you know, as Iβm receiving every Monday morning, this report from my iPhone, which tells me that youβve spent so much time on your smartphone, Iβm like, no, no, no way, but actually yes, Iβve spent that time on my smartphone. And thatβs the kind of thing that you just donβt realize because itβs two minutes there, three minutes there, and somehow youβre addressing these blind spots because the shower is not the place where you think I could be saving water or not spontaneously. So is that the aim actually to put that in the light, when in our daily lives, itβs a bit hidden because yeah. You just open the tap and thereβs water flowing
Steven Kohn:
100%. Youβve keyed on such a great point, Antwan, because there are so many solvable problems around us that weβre not addressing. I remember when I was first getting kind of getting into the entrepreneur social clubs and, and getting engaged with these people. I remember there was a guy who had a bunch of money and I heard he was doing a handover like, Oh, whatβs he doing? He goes, Oh, well, at one time he was out of the desert and heβs out with his friends, theyβre having a good time. And they had a bunch of ice melted and I was like, okay. And they go, so heβs going to make ice cream that doesnβt melt. And Iβm like, Oh no, that seems, that seems like a waste of funds. So youβre right. Thereβs these solutions available. Thereβs things we can fix every day. And I thought the shower is such a great example of one that without realizing it itβs been a convention for so long, nobody asks questions about it, you know?
And your point is so accurate. Exactly. Itβs that if you didnβt get that message from your iPhone, which I get too, and I always usually grab us at the number, but if you didnβt get that, you wouldnβt even know. Right. So what our shower pedal is doing is not only following that exact same path, but I would say weβre trying to address it more in that. Now imagine you got that little purple message. After every time you use your fault, that might start to seriously affect how much you use your phone. And now what if there was a separate stop and start button that could prevent you for picking up your phone, right? So youβre absolutely, weβre taking the exact process of just turning an opaque process, data wise, turning it transparent, getting you the end user informed and then giving you reminders whenever you do it.
You know, a phone is actually great. If I had an app that, Oh, I got my future. Maybe weβll work on this after this. If I had an app that said, Hey, youβve been on your phone for five minutes. Iβd say, Oh, I should probably get back to work then because itβs two 30 on a Wednesday I have on my phone right now. You know? So if we could take that same approach to many things, including the shower, I think weβd be better off. So exactly itβs, itβs being aware of otherwise conventionally wasteful, opaque processes and turning them into conservation based ones. Because now that we realize weβre dealing with precious resources, itβd be irresponsible and inhumane actually to not try to conserve said resources.
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Antoine Walter:
Well, actually you were fighting with our cognitive bias because we, we donβt see the word like it is. We see it. Like we, like we figure itβs exactly the show where is so embedded in what we do in our daily lives. That yeah, you donβt donβt think of it. I mean, youβre spots in the shower, but when you think of it, itβs the same when you brush your teeth or, I mean, there are many, many places like that, which are just unconscious. So I think itβs not, Iβm giving my personal opinion, but I think it a good this, you, you, you, you addressed that. So itβs cool way to do your part actually to stay on my, on my metaphor. Iβve seen that youβre pitching, and you mentioned that you are, you also have some rounds with investors. Iβm wondering, whatβs the reaction to that?
Iβm asking you that because I hope youβre comfortable addressing this. I just listened on a French podcast. Actually, there, there was a, an interview from just a new found that was launched in France. So if itβs not in France, then chances are, there are like 20, like that already in the U S I hope, but they commit to having an impact to only fund initiatives that would have an impact. And somehow thatβs what, one of my previous guests on that, on that same microphone, Kim Baker from elemental, was mentioning that they are aiming for the impact. So my question here is can you interest any kind of investors with a product and an ID like yours, or do you have to target specific people?
Steven Kohn:
Thatβs a great question. And I think youβre almost talking about like two different sales approaches, right? Like, do I just cast the widest net possible and send every email to every, every person with an app in their address? Or do I take more time and make it a bit more succinct? I would say having, just given a pitch this morning to someone that I thought Iβve knocked out of the park, just to be told that theyβre looking to fund someone for about four times the amount Iβm looking for. I was like, okay, thank you so much. Maybe that could have been taken care of beforehand, but still got feedback. I still got experienced pitching, so I donβt think itβs wasted. But for example, had I spent a little bit of time looking at it. Didnβt actually, I went back. Theyβd like to say that in our website, for example, but had I seen that that was something they were interested in?
I mightβve said, okay, well, letβs talk in 12 to 16 months. Right? So I would say, I think there is value in finding the right people. I had another pitch where the judges afforded me dead last and there was an audience of, I think it was a 25 plus people who voted me as the runner up. So that lets me know that thereβs interest, thereβs demand for my device in the market. But I clearly have to continue to find, I have to keep looking for potentially my right crowd if you will. So I think there is value in looking for the people who are most in your wheelhouse, right? Like birds of a feather flock together. Youβre not going to have to convince somebody at Burke Island ventures or elemental. It sounds like the impact of this. You just have to convince them why you have a good business model and why Iβm a good entrepreneur.
Right? So I would say if Iβm an entrepreneur whoβs hungry for funding, I would put those type of people who are most aligned at the top of your funding outreach campaign. But that should just be the first step. You probably want to touch base with them every three to six months, but that should be the first step. You should have some like a, B, C, and D squad. And by, you know, I want to call them D list thereβs. But by the time you are in the third or fourth tier, you might be looking at some general angel investors. Having said that with people like black rock and Microsoft and Google and Apple making all kinds of commitments to sustainability, this is going to become a much more prevalent portion of the investment focus and the investment pool even green bonds about half a ball per year. So I think a second breath you record breaking year rather. So I think itβs coming around, but if you can find someone who sees your idea before itβs quote unquote popular, I think youβre in for a better growth. And I think youβre in with people who are going to better appreciate you and your idea. So I would hear my funding to answer your question minutes later, more succinctly, I would definitely contour my search for people who are aligned with your ideals and people who are fun to people like yourself in the past.
Antoine Walter:
And actually at that stage in your venture, what are you looking for? Whatβs the next step for you?
Steven Kohn:
So currently we are, you know, basically weβre seed or maybe even pre-seed, weβre looking to complete a somewhat decently or know a decent amount of work to finish our prototype phase. Right? We have some great designs. We actually had someone who was putting a great physical prototype together for our product trials, our actual testing, but they got, unfortunately they got knocked off the path because of COVID weβre working internationally. So weβre back in touch with people. But now that weβre doing this domestically, it is going to require a bit more funding than we have in our quote unquote back pockets. So weβre looking for funding to get prototypes, but weβre not reducing ourselves to being on only that path. Iβm also trying to generate a lot of interest and perhaps some revenue through pitching and then also reaching out to places like the Monterey peninsula water management district, which has the most expensive water in the country.
So maybe the planet. And I feel like if theyβre onboard, then that just opened up my base of investors who will now listen, you know, sustainability at the back of the bus. Did you just say Monterey, California pebble beach resort or interested? I go, yes, sir. And they go, Oh yeah. Or yes, maβam I go right this way. I see that we have, we have some, two cup of water for you. So I think thatβs the sort of thing that I need funding, but I, donβt only, Iβm not reduced to needing funding. Thereβs a couple of ways I can get myself some funding.
Antoine Walter:
So once we get to the funding, once we get to the prototype running, whatβs your intended markets, where do you intend to market you? Are you a smart Wars that the various models you have? Is it directly to the end users or do you have that step in between where you am to maybe the bigger numbers and theyβre the professionals so more B2B than B2C?
Steven Kohn:
Definitely, definitely. First stride would be B2B. Not only because of larger impact and larger potential sales numbers, just through, you know, like franchise based contracts or multi-facility contracts. But also if I saw a smart shower in my planet fitness, or my Equinox, or, sorry, Iβm starting to name, drop a random fitness gym center. And I saw one of these, I go, Oh, how fun? And then I see the messages you use 30% less water than normal. I go, Oh my God, how cute? All of a sudden I might get that as a Christmas present somewhere. Right. But if I just go to home Depot and see this, I might just say, wow, theyβre really theyβll really put anything on the shelves these days. Right? So I think the B2B approach is not only going to save a lot more fresh water because of that high amount of traffic we see in gyms and dorms and hotels over a general, you know, the average household, but also thatβs going to make a much more impact financially, which means people will have more of a pain points relief.
Right? So if I have, I think a much better chance of selling 10,000 of these to a hotel chain than expecting to move 10,000 of these through Walmart or Loweβs or home Depot like that. And again, so it has to do with B2B first and then when, because of the impact on water savings and utility costs, but then also that should open the door and kind of that novel idea, social uptake curve. I think that the B2B acceptance will help nudge that. And then weβll have the early kind of early believers who will take it on and then theyβll be like, Oh, look, this is cool. All of a sudden it becomes, it gets to menβs health. And all of a sudden this can become kind of the new shower, the step shower technology. Well,
Antoine Walter:
Actually I think if you put that into places like hotels or things like that, it covers I think, one of these crazy experiments that Robert Cialdini did when he was writing his book influence, he was testing some messages that you can put in a hotel room. You know, so people donβt use too much water or donβt, itβs the idea that tolls cleans everyday and so far and so on. And what they found out is that the things which is the most efficient is to tell people that 85% of the people that were having that same room before reused their towels and use less than seven minutes to shower. And that was the most effective message, much stronger than any other ends. So social proof is always the one which is on top of everything because we are a tribal animal. We look at our fellow monkeys, walking the streets where we all are still are somehow these monkeys and we behave like other monkeys would behave. So to come back to your, your, your smart shower, I could imagine something, you know, you see thatβs, youβre taking showers, which are on average 3% shorter than the one before. And then itβs like your car, which tells you usually you use seven gallons per mile, and now youβre at 6.9 and youβre so proud and youβre just beating yourself record. So, I mean, thatβs works seems to work very good with our psychology,
Steven Kohn:
That behavior nudge. And then if you get the positive reinforcement of the warm fuzzies that says, you just reduced your shower by 1.2 gallons, you know, youβre going to start your day with a chip on your shoulder now. Or if you have other shower, you know, people in the hotel room says you use 20% more than the average shower taker. Then you might go, Oh my God, thank God. No one else is in the bathroom. And you might all of a sudden go, Oh, you know, maybe I donβt need to check Instagram or in the shower. Maybe I can do that after, you know, and all of a sudden, itβs this blind spot, like you said, so, well, we are putting a lens on this blind spot that every, I mean, Iβm, Iβm an entrepreneur of a company called wise water, making smart shower, and the shower will be on and Iβll still be looking at my eyebrows or hair like, Oh my God, what am I doing? And Iβll jump in the shower. So it really is an every person.
Antoine Walter:
Well, I can tell you the day, youβre, Iβm your first client. So I donβt have to shout at my, at my daughter because sheβs in the show for 20 minutes,
Steven Kohn:
How waterβs colors can relate for sure.
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Antoine Walter:
Actually something that impressed me when I was preparing for that interview, I was having a look at your, your social media is, and the way you interact online. And it seems to me that you are aiming for that impact in pretty everything. You were defending small businesses versus large corporations, inclusive culture, versus as a lesson is sharing, paying forward. And I was wondering, you know, if I see that same thing from now, Iβm being very cliche, so sorry. But if I see that same thing on Instagram lady, Iβm thinking, Oh, okay, greenwashing, but here thereβs a purpose, which seems to go, I mean, all of these elements fit together. So is it an impression or is it something that you wants to youβre being the change that you, you youβd like to see?
Steven Kohn:
Well, of course in my mind, someone whoβs obviously drank the Kool-Aid for years. I think itβs the latter, but I guess itβs up to everyone else to interpret that, you know what I mean? Like if I see someone, you know, if I know someone whoβs worked in oil all these years, and then they realized that the value in solar is there and all of a sudden they Mark themselves as sustainability, Iβm going to say, okay, this person is just pivoting with the times. But I, I would hope that when you see what I, if Iβm saying something, if I, you know, if Iβm coming to defend black lives matters or chastising Amazon for not paying their workers better, itβs because I want it to be better. And not just because I just want sick people say, Oh, you know what, Steve keyβs book like that, you know, I guess some people might call it light knighting or whatever, but itβs really more like, I canβt keep my mouth shut when I see like borderline incredulous, presumptions being made, because I know so much of, I mean, you know, not to get to that, to get any direction, but even like national elections can really be swayed by the type of narrative and information thatβs out there.
So I do fancy myself, a public servant, not a hero, but when I do have a chance to share information that I know helped kind of reshape my idea about things, especially about like an idea, like homelessness or trans rights or something. If I say, Hey, you probably think youβre a good person, but what youβre saying on LinkedIn right now is making lots of people cringe and possibly like really upset if you have you thought about it like this, you know? And, and, and as Iβm saying that, Iβm like, Oh my God, I just mansplain to, you know, all these listeners, but itβs, I just feel compelled. Iβm a bit of a chatter box Iβve been told, but I just feel compelled to share what has gotten me to a place thatβs a bit more accepting or accommodating. Because if, if we all got on the same team, you know, the Alexis would be working for us.
So the fact that thereβs this infighting between a group that should all be kind of voting and asking for the same things is a little heartbreaking. So, you know, if I can take two minutes out of my day and itβs a jump on LinkedIn and make a comment or share a link rather than say, Oh, youβre dumb. And Iβm sorry, thatβs not so helpful. If I can say, Hey, you know, the, you had actually talks about this and this article, Iβd like to think Iβm making a difference, but it could just be a little bit of backpacking for myself too.
Antoine Walter:
I think thatβs the way that we do differences nowadays. We were addressing that on a totally different topic. But with Buren auto in a previous interview, we were talking about employee advocacy. And one of the bottom lines of employee advocacy is that people just donβt believe brands and corporations anymore. People believe people hopefully still in some cases, but your best chance is actually come. People telling something to people rather than governments, corporations, even NGOs saying things because we live in that, in that word of the doubts all the time. So I think w weβre still on that pattern that weβre exploring since, since the beginning, itβs about doing your part. And if everyone does his part, well, the associates can be only better. So,
Steven Kohn:
Yeah, and if Iβm doing right by society and I donβt need to make a $4 trillion commercial on the super bowl talking about Iβm doing right by society, people will know it and theyβll go buy my product because they see the impact Iβm making. And so Iβm hoping to do over to kind of lead by example, lead by results and not lead by a huge marketing campaign that makes people think or make them results. Ideally.
Antoine Walter:
Well, talking of impact, you know, there is this last question I like to ask in, in, in the deep dive, which is to play with, with my crystal ball and letβs make a dream. What do you see in in five years? What do you see with with your smart shower, with waste water with yourself? Where do you see this venture? Where does it head?
Steven Kohn:
Very cool. I love, I love looking into the future because everything that I think always totally happens no I would say in five years, again, since weβre just playing the game in five years, I would like to see why is water possibly no longer even selling directly B2B or B2C? We will have gotten a airlock type patent would be licensing to people who are even better equipped and have a larger impact and are getting the whitewater technology into a variety of companies. Showerheads Mowen Kohler American standard. Please give me a call back my my contacts at the end, but ideally we would be licensing the smart chart technology. We will have moved on to a secondary, third endeavor. Again, more things to put in the tool belt for people who are unfortunately going to be forced to deal with the changes of climate or the consequences of climate change since the powers that be arenβt really addressing it.
So weβd like to continue to do things that keep people comfortable, keep people healthy and just use less of our most precious resources, energy, and water. And then after that, the reason why is water exists is because you canβt live without water. You know, it wouldnβt be ideal. It would tell my social life, but we can live without energy. Right? I watched these amazing videos. These guys who make pools and castles out of dirt and water and sticks, itβs phenomenal. And they did not have internet access, but they have tons of water. So why is water is here to save our most precious resource next in line after water, I would really love to get into mangroves. As I understand that mangroves are possibly not a panacea or a silver bullet, but as far as addressing a large swath of the problems that people are seeing climate wise, thatβs obviously carbon water, thatβs water pollution. Thatβs a lack of fishery content, all stuff. It seems like mangroves are going to do an amazing job. And also just taking carbon out of the air. I think thatβs something that was water might either address or partner with other groups like the mangrove action project and note, phenomenal work as a volunteer with them. And Iβd love to continue to just address and pivot to whatever the most pressing and or impactful endeavor we can address, whatever that may be in five years.
Antoine Walter:
Thatβs at the same time, ambitious and a beautiful target, Iβd say. So Iβd be very glad to bring you the microphone in, in five years or even before to check how that turned out, because sounds fascinating.
Steven Kohn:
Sure. Weβll see how feasible, but certainly fascinating now. Yeah.
Antoine Walter:
If you dream too low youβre going to achieve to do as well. So very good point. And for the moon to go somewhere.
Steven Kohn:
Yeah, I have, I have real life for reality. I drink for fun. Yeah, but it should be fun
Antoine Walter:
Actually. Steven, if itβs good for you, Iβd like to switch to the rapid fire questions. That sounds a good plan.
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Rapid fire questions
Antoine Walter:
So in this last section, I trying to keep the questions short and I liked you to keep the answers short as well, but Iβm not getting the microphone. So if you want to be a bit longer, donβt limit yourself.
Steven Kohn:
My first
Antoine Walter:
Question is what is the most exciting project youβve been working on
Steven Kohn:
And why? Most exciting project will Def, I mean, obviously itβs with the smart shower, but specifically Iβm working with STEM hero and the Brooklyn technical high school. We might have some youngsters who are way smarter than me coding our backend, but also we have some multifamily housing. We have some students with multi-family housing who donβt have a way to measure their water and STEM hero literally wants to incorporate our device into their curriculum for these kids to have a way to measure a shower. So that is for sure a very real and visceral way that we can make an impact. Definitely the most interesting thing right now
Antoine Walter:
Sounds very interesting, actually. So yeah. Whatβs your favorite part of your current job, which might be that same project?
Steven Kohn:
Thatβs such an interesting question. I think my favorite part is the question answered. Like this is a question to answer. This is great, but my favorite part is question and answer from investors after I make my pitch. That to me is the most thatβs like Pedro, even obviously youβre always waiting for them to say, Oh, this is the best idea ever. Hereβs millions of dollars that tends to not happen every time, but youβre also getting extremely valuable feedback. Youβre going to hear what your pitch is missing. Youβre gonna hear what you may or may not be bringing in your presentation or in your persona. And also you start to hear what the focal points of these investors are. So you might come back in three or six months, say, Hey, this, this, and this has changed. You know, as they say, how you like me now, but itβs such a wealth of information and it shows your points and shows you how to improve for the next time. So to me, thatβs, thereβs no better learn. Iβm so early on the stage, thereβs no better learning opportunity than hearing criticism and questions from a potential investor.
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Antoine Walter:
Actually, a part of the question is really for the stupider. Iβve never pitched. So I donβt know at all. Do you have sometimes weird answers or weird questions that you think, Oh, whether you expand really in a bad way or those guys didnβt drink enough coffee this morning?
Steven Kohn:
Itβs I literally thought I go, Oh no, am I in the wrong place? Like, am I like, Oh no. Is this like, like a meeting? Is this like a library meeting or something? And because I had this guy, this guyβs a nice guy. And he means, well, heβs putting together a pitch contest, so I canβt blame him, but this is the same place where the judges did not think I was any good. The audience voted me second. And I got my feedback and not only was the guy like all, I canβt believe it, but you know why his water gets the honorable mention. Cause he got wrote up and I was like, thanks. But he goes, maybe if you put some hot air at the end, then it will be so cold. And I was like, okay, puff of hot air again, duly noted.
You know what I mean? And then you just crumble that note up and throw it over your shoulder. This is clearly not your people, right? Iβm not going to get mad at this guy for not understanding my concept, what it lets you know, it just circle back why you donβt just pitch to anybody because theyβll be like, what do you mean by show works fine. I was like, okay, thank you for your time. Have a great day. Keep moving the wishes. Thatβs a drywall, you know? So it helps you, you know, thankfully Iβve been single enough. Iβve been in sales enough that Iβm okay with a no. And I just keep, you know, you find that the yeses that you donβt have to work so hard for. And those are the people who are just going to maybe just get a little bit better.
Antoine Walter:
Itβs interesting. It raises two things in me first. Itβs these aspect of knowing who your people are. I mean, if your people are everybody, then thereβs, there are nobody as well. So itβs important to know to whom youβre talking. And the second thing is much more prosaic itβs itβs I donβt know if itβs the same in the U S but in France itβs like that when a movie comes out, if the press says itβs a nice movie, you know, itβs going to flop. And the other way round, if the press does that movie is really the worst ever. Then sometimes it also flops, but good chances that actually that works pretty fine. So thereβs a disconnect between what specialists think and what people think. Exactly.
Steven Kohn:
Exactly. And to me, itβs, you know, you donβt want to say, Oh, well the people get it. Some, all these reasons are stupid. You have to think, okay, well the people got into this promise, why didnβt the judges get it? You know, everythingβs a learning experience. All feedback is useful.
Antoine Walter:
So let me move to the next one, which is, what is the thing you care about the most when youβre working on a new project and what is the one that you care the least? Thatβs great question. What
Steven Kohn:
Kind of impact is this going to leave? Right. Like to be completely selfish about it. Right. I would love to say, I would love to smart showers successful. You know, I become wealthy. I can kind of do, you know, I get to self-actualize my personal life, millions of gallons of water are saved and millions of costs utility. So businesses have easier families who are hard of having easier. People have to walk uphill for water, just all these type places. All those people will do better. But if I knew on my, you know, towards the end of my life, that the impact that I made was that I helped, I helped catalyze the savings of all this water that we all agree is such a shared resource. To me, thatβs kind of at the end of the day, what does it for me? So Iβd like to say impact, like what kind of ripple effect can I make. But ultimately I think itβs also very much ego. Itβs kind of just ego driven. Like how big in it. I have one, Iβm one guy with two hands and one life. And I Iβve decided I want to help people. And the arena is climate change.
Antoine Walter:
Thatβs the thing you care the most. And whatβs the one who cared the least
Steven Kohn:
How to pay for it. You know, thatβs, thatβs, Iβm like, Oh my God. Cause I was just give me money, you know? And thatβs something Iβm going to have to learn the nuances of when something Iβm going to have to focus on because the better I get at pay for things, the more likely they are to happen. So yeah. Thatβs and I say that I canβt at least about it because I have the most to learn. So itβs next on my list of things to address.
Antoine Walter:
Interesting one, what is the trend to watch out in the water?
Steven Kohn:
Weβre going to get away from wasteful water in every capacity. Think about the, like I mentioned earlier, think about how you wash your hands in a movie theater, because it seems to be like a hotel lobby. So like kind of a fancy building. You have that sensor under your, under the sink. Itβs touchless thereβs even if you have a thing right next to it, a lot of times for the soap. So itβs completely touchless and itβs completely, completely utilize every drop of water. If your hands are out of there, thereβs no water, right? So weβre going to take the same approach to the shower head, obviously that weβre doing now. But the same approach is going to be taken to kitchen sinks, Kohler. I think Moe had already made a, a foster. We can say one cup of water and it doesnβt give you one drop more, one drop less, you have your little measuring cup, ready cup of water.
And then with toilets, if youβre hanging out with the nerds and I do, you already know that when you have, you know, when we make our, you know, our tiny hole or we make our getaway home, eventually one of our total most likely be a composting toilet, right? So you might even see waterless toilets. Like you might see the urinal, but full capacity water was toilets. So I think what weβre going to see is instead of doing these grandiose projects, like trying to suck carbon out of the air or trying to, you know, although thatβs important. So it was redoing nuclear nuclear. I think weβre going to see a lot more updating of old things because thatβs, I mean, thereβs some something going a public policy thatβs low hanging fruit rather than put trillions of dollars in more desalinization plants. Why donβt we do everything we can to reduce the fresh water demand first? You know, itβs like replacing all your incandescent bulbs with led bulbs.
Antoine Walter:
Makes sense. Yeah. Do you have sources to recommend, to keep up with the water and wastewater market?
Steven Kohn:
You know, Iβm, Iβm still looking at myself. Thereβs always more things that are coming out. Thereβs even a bunch of new places that are specifically for like pre-seed and pre revenue, water ventures. So thereβs always new stuff coming out, but right now I stick to LinkedIn and the news for like clean tech stuff usually falls under there. And then of course like entrepreneur magazine, just Google alerts for water, kind of all that basic stuff. No no fancy tricks of the trades there for you. Sorry.
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Antoine Walter:
Iβm not aiming for the fence yet. Iβm aiming for the efficient and I think the sources you recommend sound efficient.
Steven Kohn:
Yeah. Google, LinkedIn. Yeah.
Antoine Walter:
Thatβs the majority of it right there. I think the best surrogacy in our industry often is common sense. So Iβm glad that you, you give the answer and no offense to the guys, but itβs, youβre neither team GWI or team BlueTech so
Steven Kohn:
Yeah, exactly. Iβm still open source still.
Antoine Walter:
Well, do you have someone to recommend that we should definitely invite on that same microphone
Steven Kohn:
Iβve been talking to and now Iβm going to forget her name, but Iβm really hoping to work farther with a group theyβre a startup and theyβre getting bigger soon farm from a box. Have you heard of this? Nope. Sorry, sorry. Iβm getting my JLL question. Iβve heard this. So itβs basically a, what we would call a sea can or a sea container where thereβs like nine by 12 by 12 long, large shipping containers. And basically inside of that is a complete control panel for a form, including a little bit of solar power on your soil, testing, ed, your water maintenance technology. So we would love to slap our smart pedal. Basically we, you know, itβd be contoured towards an open more outdoor capacity, but we let us use our technology on that device. So agriculture is a huge place for water conservation. So I think farm from a box might be someone really cool to talk to because sheβs farther along than I am. Thatβs the CEO. And so, you know, her name alludes me right now. Sadly, sheβs farther along than I am. And sheβs talking to people where water scarcity is a huge issue. Thatβs why theyβre hurt and so valuable. Actually
Antoine Walter:
Iβd have a look. It sounds, sounds really interesting. Stephen, itβs been a pleasure if people want to call you are to to contact you after this interview, where should I redirect them?
Steven Kohn:
Well, the first place to go would be check out my website, which is www.smart shower dot U S on. There is my contact information. If you want to shoot me an email, just to get some more information, you can email me@steveatsmartshower.us. And then lastly, you can give me a call or if you wanted to talk, you know, for something relatively pressing or important intent funding please give me a call at (917) 719-6573. And just say, hello. Iβd love to hear from anyone really
Antoine Walter:
Well. Iβm going to put all those details. Also in the, in the episode notes, itβs been really a pleasure. I think youβre addressing a field, which I have to say. I wouldnβt have thought of myself. I mean, really one of these plants, parts of the everyday, but at the end of the day, thatβs what matters. So thanks for that. And thanks for that for all these insights and the lovely conversation we had.
Steven Kohn:
And so I thank you so much for this opportunity. I love, love, love what youβre doing. Youβre giving a voice to these very, that put myself in the box, but Iβve heard your other people, other guests in theyβre phenomenally smart and impactful people. So thank you for this opportunity and looking forward to talking to in the future. Weβll weβll check back in a year or two. Awesome. Thanks.
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