with 🎙️ Steven Kohn – CEO & Founder @ Wisewater
💧 Wisewater aims to provide simple and seamless devices to better conserve our most precious resource, (aka water).
What we covered:
🍏 How water scarcity is unfortunately here to stay, and what this involves politically but also in terms of water costs
🍏 Yes, we can all do something about it, and actually every day!
🍏 The steps Steven & Wisewater followed to come up with their first smart device
🍏 The truths about water that we tend to forget within the comfort of our modern societies
🔥 … and of course, we concluded with the 𝙧𝙖𝙥𝙞𝙙 𝙛𝙞𝙧𝙚 𝙦𝙪𝙚𝙨𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣𝙨 🔥
Resources:
➡️ Send your warm regards to Steven on LinkedIn
➡️ Visit Wisewater’s website
is on Linkedin ➡️
Full Transcript:
These are computer generated, so expect some typos 🙂
Antoine Walter:
So, Hey Steven, welcome to the show. Awesome.
Steven Kohn:
Thanks so much for having me pleasure to be here. Well,
Antoine Walter:
Actually, you know, I love starting with a postcard and being French, watching NBA from time to time. So I was thinking for once I have someone from Brooklyn and Brooklyn seems to be the hot place this year when it comes to basketball. So how confident are you that you finally get that title this year?
Steven Kohn:
You know, it’s so funny. I grew up in a Knicks fan and the last time the Knicks were in the news, I think it was because Reggie Miller was in the news. So it’s nice to have not only some talent, but I would dare say the newest super team in the NBA, you know, kind of rough around the corner. So looking forward to catching some games,
Antoine Walter:
Not that people would think that I turn that podcast into a sport podcast, but you mentioned that the Knicks and the Knicks have a French guy, which actually grew up just some kilometers away from my home. So I was like, you know, it’s going to be the next big star and that didn’t turn that good for him. So you have another French guy in the nets. I hope he’s making better,
Steven Kohn:
Hopefully, hopefully,
Download my Latest Book - for Free!
Antoine Walter:
But that being said, let’s focus on our topic of today. And actually I’d like to start with you. I was reading your bio on LinkedIn and I was impressed by your path. To be honest, there are many ventures there and from an outsider perspective, which is my perspective right now, I see sustainability, I see entrepreneurship. And it was wondering if that’s a good summary to say that those two main areas define what you do today. So I was wondering how would you introduce yourself?
Steven Kohn:
Yeah, definitely. I would be thrilled if I was associated with being a successful sustainable entrepreneur. I was studying sustainability without really realizing it before grad school. And then I actually got my masters in sustainability entrepreneurially. That’s kind of come to fruition. You know, obviously the job market is not ideal these past few years, but I was looking to make a difference and I had a couple of great positions where I felt like I was in the right industry. Right. Like I believe in solar, obviously I believe in energy efficiency, I believe in compost, you know, that should be most businesses should be incorporating all of those things if not every home, but the opportunities in the job market or not giving me the autonomy or maybe the problem solving responsibilities I wanted. So without realizing it, I was kind of honing in on a bit more of a entrepreneurial endeavor. And I think that’s kind of why I’m where I’m at now.
Antoine Walter:
So basically you’re creating that space that you didn’t find somewhere else. So you are the change that you, you, you wanted to see from a resume it that way
Steven Kohn:
In a very individual career sense. Yes, sir. I am. I, you could definitely say that. Trying to manifest my own ideal role. Yeah.
Antoine Walter:
It’s the hummingbird metaphor. We all have to do our part if we want to achieve something at the end. So exactly you’re doing your part.
Steven Kohn:
I want to be part of, so
Antoine Walter:
Actually I was intrigued by your subtitle on LinkedIn, which is sustainable entrepreneur. And if I want to be a bit provocative, I’m wondering if there is today an entrepreneur that could not be sustainable because actually yeah. Sustainable covers this aspect of building something. So yeah. W what’s your take, there shouldn’t any modern entrepreneur being sustainable,
Steven Kohn:
You know, Antoine, that’s so interesting that you say it like that because this is the first time anyone’s ever asked me that question or kind of posed it like that. I being a, I guess I consider myself a sustainable entrepreneur. That makes sense to me. However, no one’s ever suggested it’s redundant, which I think is great. That you’re, that you’re putting like that sadly. No. How many businesses out there are not doing right by the environment are doing right by the community or even doing right by as far as the hourly pay and the, and the wages that there are, people are being paid. Sadly, you know, every single corporation in their right mind is going to pay hommage to the eco-friendly movement, sustainability climate change. You just have, you know, we recently just had our super bowl. So if you want to watch you know, you see the most heartfelt community hard work and folks based commercial, and then it’s, you know, bank of America or Toyota or something, you know, so everyone acknowledges and wants to, as we say, in the industry kind of greenwash themselves. But I would say very few companies are actually walking the walk, or I should say very few entrepreneurs are seeking out to be truly sustainable in the triple bottom line sense.
Antoine Walter:
Yeah. I’m hoping for the new generation of entrepreneurs to be a bit different to that extent, but
Steven Kohn:
You nailed it. I think if you asked the average entrepreneur from 25 years ago, they’d say, what is sustainability? And now you’re absolutely right. I think you’d be hard pressed to find a new modern entrepreneur under, you know, kind of in our age generation that is not incorporating some sort of sustainability and social awareness into their mission statement and their business model.
Antoine Walter:
Let’s hope at least that we are we right in back. Cause that’s you also state that you are a problem-solver and that’s going to be my smooth transition. Watch me do that. So what is the problem that you aim to solve with your smart pedal?
Steven Kohn:
What a seamless segue. Thank you, Anton. That’s such a, that’s like the number one question and it’s two-fold right. So the smart shower device, my startup, the smart shower by wise water is ultimately addressing to what we like to call pain points. Right? You can talk about that in a sales interview or a public service, or, you know, a policy point of view. There’s two pain points I’m trying to address with our startup one, the dramatically increasing scarcity we find with freshwater. So if you look on the UN United nations website, they’ll talk about the sustainable development goals, which are kind of shaping their, you know, kind of spearheading their efforts for the next decade. Many of them, I think like at least a quarter of them are watermelon. And a lot of them are doing are related to water scarcity over 3 billion people go without water or enough water throughout the year at certain times.
And over a billion people live in agriculturally water scarce areas, which is the sort of thing that led to the, you know, the civil war and eventual, you know, the water Wars in ex in Yemen and then Bolivia a couple of years prior. So it’s very quick where water scarcity is tied to national health and then national security, sadly, even more so the energy. And so obviously any and all devices that can seamlessly without making people bend over backwards to their donor life that can reduce our demand on fresh water supply every day is going to be huge. Getting those into houses, going to be one thing, getting that into businesses that utilize a lot of traffic in this capacity. Now we’re talking about a much larger ripple effect. So the one hand are Wisewater smart, shower wants to affect water scarcity. We’re holding.
We’re going to be one of many tools that addresses this growing concern. The second aspect, which is responded to the water scarcity is the growing cost of water. That’s again for home and facility owners and almost half a dozen cities. Now in the U S we’re looking at an average water bill of over $200 a month, which is not only a, I want to say over 50% increase from 10 years ago, but also borderline unattainable for a lot of working class families. Not that there’s a lot of working-class families left in cities like New York and San Francisco, but this just reinforces that there’s not a place for them in these cities, which is a crime in itself. So just adjacent, just immediately kind of riding the coattails of scarcity. We have a dramatic and growing increase in cost and therefore access to clean water. So again, any and all tools in the toolbox that can help reduce conserve the usage of fresh water will then translate to a dramatic reduction in utility costs, whether that’s for facilities and or homeowners. So our smart shower is hoping to, you know, trying to conserve fresh water and also conserve our utility bills in the same retrofit.
Antoine Walter:
That’s the tool. But let’s define that tool. What is it actually, how does it work?
Steven Kohn:
Of course. So what a great question. Thank you. So specifically our Wisewater smart shower is a retrofittable device. It’s actually self powered by the water flow itself. And what you do is you, you take off your shower, head, you put on this device, or we’re hoping it’s gonna be the size of roughly, you know, a Coke can maybe a little bit smaller you or a soda can, rather than you put your shower, head back on. Now it’s fully installed. That’s it. Once you turn the shower on, no water will actually come out. It’s not until you hit our foot pedal that’s on the ground. That’s when the water is going to come out. Okay. So what this now does is it’s turning a classically automatic and all their say wasteful process into a manually controlled and conservation based process. Right? A lot of people, I think the average shower time is like, is like eight to nine minutes.
We’re using approximately three gallons a minute, right? So let’s say if you’re in there eight to 10 minutes, you probably only need water for five or six. So let’s say you’ve installed a low flow shower head. We used to use five gallons per minute. Now we’re using two and a half, so you’ve cut it in half right now. What if you started using zero gallons per minute for four to five minutes of that shower, right? This is what they do on submarines is what my grandpa was yelling at me to do at his house. Anyway, you know, this is, this is a more, there’s more of a, an old-school conservation based shower, which is not what showers are today, showers on this luxurious stress-relieving, you know, nice thing to do, especially in a day, I’m looking out my window and it’s 25 degrees outside. So I will be looking forward to taking my time in the shower today.
However, in water scarce areas like California, New Mexico, central America, most of the equatorial hemisphere, we’re talking about places where water is so scarce, that comfort and convenience and stress. These are not the key. We’re talking about control and conservation of water. So our shower pedal is going to turn a automatic flow into a controlled conservative flow. The default is stop. And when you press the pedal, it comes on. So only when you pass the pedal will come out. So if you put this in gyms, you put this in hotels, you put this in school, dormitories, these places where end users are not necessarily connected to the cost or the climate impact, shall we say the water footprint of their showers. Now, all of a sudden you give them a chance to stop and start their water. Really helping them reduce their water footprint.
Download my Latest Book - for Free!
Antoine Walter:
I’m impressed because you re passionated about the subject. So I could let you flow for 20 minutes, but I have to catch you because, you know, I have to be the contrarian here. Of course, I was just wondering, you know, how did you come up with the ID of the smart shower and this smart pedal? Because the problem you are exposing is a problem. Many companies have addressed the problem in the sense that they identified, or they acknowledge the problem. There is water scarcity, and there’s a high cost of water, and then there’s many ways to address it. And then I’m wondering, how did you come with that idea?
Steven Kohn:
So I, I would love to say that it was a completely original creative idea that I had after working long hours of brainstorming. However, in reality, it’s something that I experienced in two separate places. I was, I’m lucky enough to have been able to travel to Europe. When I graduated undergrad must, must’ve been 2005, 2006. And then I saw a similar device in the Florida keys when I was working in AmeriCorps. So what this device was, again, I got in the shower, turn the water on, stood there for 10 seconds, feeling like a bit of a doofus. Wondering why, because if you can hear the water, right, you can hear the water flowing. And I’m like, what is going on? And I look up and there’s a sign that says, pull string for water and above right above my head. Like you’re pulling the light string in the basement or an attic.
Steven Kohn:
There’s a little rostering. And when you pull that string down, that’s when the water comes out. So this was basically taking a water fountain or what I would see as like a water fountain approach to a shower head. Right. It’s requiring you to, certainly you turn on, you use the conventional tools, but it’s not until you engage that secondary lever with your hand that you get the water. So I saw this again in the keys at, at a bungalow, like a Marine center non-profit we were staying at for a few weeks and I go, this is so great until you have to do all the shower stuff that you normally do with one hand, all of a sudden, this very brilliant conservation tool. You’re like, okay, this is great, but now I’m going to be here an extra couple of minutes. Cause I’m trying to get, you know, she had to go out of my head with one hand, which I’m less good at.
And so in my mind, I think we’ll, you know, take a sewing machine, which is purposely done at the foot pedal so that you can have two hands ready for sewing. In this case, if you just take that, you know, you could make a very makeshift drawstring. That’s kind of a prototype I had in the garage a few years ago, a string to a small piece of wood, and you’ve ultimately done that. But what we wanted to do, we actually created a pneumatic bladder and have a small tube that runs down. So it’s really connected and really tight to a mechanical spring valve. And so that’s actually going to allow you to stop and start the water, but also have two hands free to do whatever you need to do in the shower.
Antoine Walter:
But that means your original ID dates back to that travel in 2005 or 2006, and then it evolved in your head. And when was the turning point where you said, I have to do something about that.
Steven Kohn:
So all the random thoughts didn’t really come together in my head as like the transformer style until 2013. I’ll say when I had an opportunity to engage in an entrepreneurial contest with NYU, where I graduated my masters. So I was like, Oh, this could actually be a good idea. And that was the first time that I realized how not flushed out this idea was, but I got a lot of great feedback. That was the first time I heard that like, well, why don’t you make a pneumatic bladder instead? And they’re like, why don’t you make a attached to IOT app? And I took all those things down. And by 2014, 2015, I was actively seeking funding, getting bank loans, getting my LLC going. And here we are now. Yeah, I guess I was lucky enough to really hone in on it in 2013 through a school contest at school.
Antoine Walter:
No, that’s interesting because it’s a bit this concept by, by Gary Halbert, I think who said he was putting some stuff, some ideas into a shoe box and letting it in the shoe box, not doing anything about it. So it was taking, cutting out media pieces papers and putting it into the shoe box. And then one day it could be some days later or some weeks or some months it would return to the shoe box and his brain would have processed all these elements. And finally he had the brilliant ID and somehow that’s the way our brains work. So for you, that was eight years.
Steven Kohn:
Yeah, I think I like to call it a simmering process. I see a similar thing happened with albums. There’s one song I love. And then I’m like, ah, you know, I really want to rush that song. And then months later I might come back and go, why did I never give this song a chance? And all of a sudden your tastes have changed. The flavors have kind of melded a little bit. So time really does help kind of hone in and focus the idea that’s really there for sure.
Antoine Walter:
No, we felt we were a bit fast-forward to what I saw on your, on your website. What was interesting to me with your, your concept is that it’s at the same time, pretty low tech. I mean, as you just described, you are replacing and refurbishing something on the shower heads and you have a pedal like a sewing machine and on the other end, it’s pretty high-tech because you also have that IOT element inside. So can you maybe guide us through that paradox if I might say so?
Steven Kohn:
Yeah, no, I love the idea of the paradox, but also it is by design. So Hey, thank you for noticing that kind of the dichotomy and that I think is one of our strengths at whitewater or of the smart shower device. If you will. If I was to pull out my investor deck, I can show you one of our slides actually addresses that we have four different models and those four models basically range from the most, shall I say, low end, which is just our stop and start device. Or it’s even more durable. This is for off the grid. This is for camping. This is for RVs, right? Where there is no IOT, there’s no fancy schmancy led screen, if you will. And that’s just conservation based and that’s also going to be our most economical option, right? So then you have something that’s just the meter, right?
Maybe you have a demographic that loves the data, loves the cause. You know, because everything’s smart is sexy these days to investors. And you know, if you say you have, I have the nest of XYZ, then like, be like, Oh, I’m listening, I’m listening. Right. So if you say I have the nest of your shower, they go, okay, I’m listening. So we like to think of it like that because we aren’t getting a bunch of control and a bunch of data. So the spectrum includes the most economical, the most basic conservation based. We have one that addresses the more trendy and more still valuable data trend where there is also the behavior nudge. And then of course the classic prototype has both, right. You’ll have the stop and start feature. You’ll also have an led display in the shower with, so in case you don’t care or not, you’re still going to see a screen or, you know, something blink or a thing that says, Hey, do you use 11 minutes with water?
Something like that. So the end user has to hear it in addition to an app that if you’re a homeowner facility owner, obviously you have your in-depth data. That’s organized on the website. And then at the most high end, you have the classic, both features the stop and start in the IOT. But we also do like a motion sensor or a voice activated. So it’d be like, Alexa, helping put your shower together, or even something motion sensor kind of envisioning like a the nice sinks that are like a movie theater or a lobby where you just put your hands on and water comes out. Well, if you have a rainfall shower, you can just step under and out of. I mean, now you’re talking the most seamless way of really maximizing your savings and not compromising your shower, quality or comfort at all. You’re literally stepping six inches left and right. You couldn’t be easier to save water at that point.
Antoine Walter:
Well, I can fully imagine that, but I mentioned I have to be the contractor. And so I’m going to be a piece of the contract and trust me, of course, I love everything. That’s digital. And to an extent that’s sometimes it’s ridiculous and my wife could tell, but you mentioned something electrically construct, you mentioned investors are interested. If you come with the nest of something, I think in other areas might be the Netflix or something or Uber of something. Is it something which is a need to raise the interest of the investors? Or do you think it’s still possible nowadays to come with something which is a sturdy low-tech product that has really no digital aspect.
Steven Kohn:
So you’ve now asked the question, are we making for the critics or for the artists, right? You really hold it on the basic philosophy, perhaps the two types of entrepreneurs. Do you design something for the investors or do you design something for the cause? And what I like to do, what I think was the most entrepreneurial thing to do was I’m catering to both in that the suite of technologies will address a wide spectrum of demographics, right? So for every high-end Alexa or Google assist, smart shower, we sell, we can get three or four low impact shower, pedals out to people in water scarce areas. Right? And if I’m talking to some people who have zero interest in climate change, but are all about data, then in order for me to maximize the impact of my water saving technologies, then it might do me some justice to just slightly counter my approach, read the room and say, sustainability, sustainability, have I got the newest nest device for you?
And I’ve I got I have a fun new app and just any, yet people save water. But talk about the ESG ratings that you’ll get. If you put this in your hotel, you know what I mean? So I might have to pivot a little bit in my approach, but all of this is to sell shower pedals. Actually, we used to sell smart showers. If I, the more smart showers I sell, the more water we save. End of story. And so I don’t want to throw out a low cost impactful aspect of the spectrum just because we can make more on the high end. I’m a fan of the Preto principle addressing that you can’t just do a few people for the highest profit. If you really trying to be a sustainable entrepreneur and not be, you know, a hypocrite in that sense, you have to address the problem too. So I see a place for empire. I’m not burning my candle from both ends, but I do see a place for appeasing people with who are writing the checks and also still making a difference for people who have to walk two miles a day for clean water. I hope it’s not lofty, but that is the goal. Yeah,
Antoine Walter:
It makes total sense. Yeah. Excellent answer to my tricky question, you know, when, so you, you, your device, what it made me think of, you know, as I’m receiving every Monday morning, this report from my iPhone, which tells me that you’ve spent so much time on your smartphone, I’m like, no, no, no way, but actually yes, I’ve spent that time on my smartphone. And that’s the kind of thing that you just don’t realize because it’s two minutes there, three minutes there, and somehow you’re addressing these blind spots because the shower is not the place where you think I could be saving water or not spontaneously. So is that the aim actually to put that in the light, when in our daily lives, it’s a bit hidden because yeah. You just open the tap and there’s water flowing
Steven Kohn:
100%. You’ve keyed on such a great point, Antwan, because there are so many solvable problems around us that we’re not addressing. I remember when I was first getting kind of getting into the entrepreneur social clubs and, and getting engaged with these people. I remember there was a guy who had a bunch of money and I heard he was doing a handover like, Oh, what’s he doing? He goes, Oh, well, at one time he was out of the desert and he’s out with his friends, they’re having a good time. And they had a bunch of ice melted and I was like, okay. And they go, so he’s going to make ice cream that doesn’t melt. And I’m like, Oh no, that seems, that seems like a waste of funds. So you’re right. There’s these solutions available. There’s things we can fix every day. And I thought the shower is such a great example of one that without realizing it it’s been a convention for so long, nobody asks questions about it, you know?
And your point is so accurate. Exactly. It’s that if you didn’t get that message from your iPhone, which I get too, and I always usually grab us at the number, but if you didn’t get that, you wouldn’t even know. Right. So what our shower pedal is doing is not only following that exact same path, but I would say we’re trying to address it more in that. Now imagine you got that little purple message. After every time you use your fault, that might start to seriously affect how much you use your phone. And now what if there was a separate stop and start button that could prevent you for picking up your phone, right? So you’re absolutely, we’re taking the exact process of just turning an opaque process, data wise, turning it transparent, getting you the end user informed and then giving you reminders whenever you do it.
You know, a phone is actually great. If I had an app that, Oh, I got my future. Maybe we’ll work on this after this. If I had an app that said, Hey, you’ve been on your phone for five minutes. I’d say, Oh, I should probably get back to work then because it’s two 30 on a Wednesday I have on my phone right now. You know? So if we could take that same approach to many things, including the shower, I think we’d be better off. So exactly it’s, it’s being aware of otherwise conventionally wasteful, opaque processes and turning them into conservation based ones. Because now that we realize we’re dealing with precious resources, it’d be irresponsible and inhumane actually to not try to conserve said resources.
Download my Latest Book - for Free!
Antoine Walter:
Well, actually you were fighting with our cognitive bias because we, we don’t see the word like it is. We see it. Like we, like we figure it’s exactly the show where is so embedded in what we do in our daily lives. That yeah, you don’t don’t think of it. I mean, you’re spots in the shower, but when you think of it, it’s the same when you brush your teeth or, I mean, there are many, many places like that, which are just unconscious. So I think it’s not, I’m giving my personal opinion, but I think it a good this, you, you, you, you addressed that. So it’s cool way to do your part actually to stay on my, on my metaphor. I’ve seen that you’re pitching, and you mentioned that you are, you also have some rounds with investors. I’m wondering, what’s the reaction to that?
I’m asking you that because I hope you’re comfortable addressing this. I just listened on a French podcast. Actually, there, there was a, an interview from just a new found that was launched in France. So if it’s not in France, then chances are, there are like 20, like that already in the U S I hope, but they commit to having an impact to only fund initiatives that would have an impact. And somehow that’s what, one of my previous guests on that, on that same microphone, Kim Baker from elemental, was mentioning that they are aiming for the impact. So my question here is can you interest any kind of investors with a product and an ID like yours, or do you have to target specific people?
Steven Kohn:
That’s a great question. And I think you’re almost talking about like two different sales approaches, right? Like, do I just cast the widest net possible and send every email to every, every person with an app in their address? Or do I take more time and make it a bit more succinct? I would say having, just given a pitch this morning to someone that I thought I’ve knocked out of the park, just to be told that they’re looking to fund someone for about four times the amount I’m looking for. I was like, okay, thank you so much. Maybe that could have been taken care of beforehand, but still got feedback. I still got experienced pitching, so I don’t think it’s wasted. But for example, had I spent a little bit of time looking at it. Didn’t actually, I went back. They’d like to say that in our website, for example, but had I seen that that was something they were interested in?
I might’ve said, okay, well, let’s talk in 12 to 16 months. Right? So I would say, I think there is value in finding the right people. I had another pitch where the judges afforded me dead last and there was an audience of, I think it was a 25 plus people who voted me as the runner up. So that lets me know that there’s interest, there’s demand for my device in the market. But I clearly have to continue to find, I have to keep looking for potentially my right crowd if you will. So I think there is value in looking for the people who are most in your wheelhouse, right? Like birds of a feather flock together. You’re not going to have to convince somebody at Burke Island ventures or elemental. It sounds like the impact of this. You just have to convince them why you have a good business model and why I’m a good entrepreneur.
Right? So I would say if I’m an entrepreneur who’s hungry for funding, I would put those type of people who are most aligned at the top of your funding outreach campaign. But that should just be the first step. You probably want to touch base with them every three to six months, but that should be the first step. You should have some like a, B, C, and D squad. And by, you know, I want to call them D list there’s. But by the time you are in the third or fourth tier, you might be looking at some general angel investors. Having said that with people like black rock and Microsoft and Google and Apple making all kinds of commitments to sustainability, this is going to become a much more prevalent portion of the investment focus and the investment pool even green bonds about half a ball per year. So I think a second breath you record breaking year rather. So I think it’s coming around, but if you can find someone who sees your idea before it’s quote unquote popular, I think you’re in for a better growth. And I think you’re in with people who are going to better appreciate you and your idea. So I would hear my funding to answer your question minutes later, more succinctly, I would definitely contour my search for people who are aligned with your ideals and people who are fun to people like yourself in the past.
Antoine Walter:
And actually at that stage in your venture, what are you looking for? What’s the next step for you?
Steven Kohn:
So currently we are, you know, basically we’re seed or maybe even pre-seed, we’re looking to complete a somewhat decently or know a decent amount of work to finish our prototype phase. Right? We have some great designs. We actually had someone who was putting a great physical prototype together for our product trials, our actual testing, but they got, unfortunately they got knocked off the path because of COVID we’re working internationally. So we’re back in touch with people. But now that we’re doing this domestically, it is going to require a bit more funding than we have in our quote unquote back pockets. So we’re looking for funding to get prototypes, but we’re not reducing ourselves to being on only that path. I’m also trying to generate a lot of interest and perhaps some revenue through pitching and then also reaching out to places like the Monterey peninsula water management district, which has the most expensive water in the country.
So maybe the planet. And I feel like if they’re onboard, then that just opened up my base of investors who will now listen, you know, sustainability at the back of the bus. Did you just say Monterey, California pebble beach resort or interested? I go, yes, sir. And they go, Oh yeah. Or yes, ma’am I go right this way. I see that we have, we have some, two cup of water for you. So I think that’s the sort of thing that I need funding, but I, don’t only, I’m not reduced to needing funding. There’s a couple of ways I can get myself some funding.
Antoine Walter:
So once we get to the funding, once we get to the prototype running, what’s your intended markets, where do you intend to market you? Are you a smart Wars that the various models you have? Is it directly to the end users or do you have that step in between where you am to maybe the bigger numbers and they’re the professionals so more B2B than B2C?
Steven Kohn:
Definitely, definitely. First stride would be B2B. Not only because of larger impact and larger potential sales numbers, just through, you know, like franchise based contracts or multi-facility contracts. But also if I saw a smart shower in my planet fitness, or my Equinox, or, sorry, I’m starting to name, drop a random fitness gym center. And I saw one of these, I go, Oh, how fun? And then I see the messages you use 30% less water than normal. I go, Oh my God, how cute? All of a sudden I might get that as a Christmas present somewhere. Right. But if I just go to home Depot and see this, I might just say, wow, they’re really they’ll really put anything on the shelves these days. Right? So I think the B2B approach is not only going to save a lot more fresh water because of that high amount of traffic we see in gyms and dorms and hotels over a general, you know, the average household, but also that’s going to make a much more impact financially, which means people will have more of a pain points relief.
Right? So if I have, I think a much better chance of selling 10,000 of these to a hotel chain than expecting to move 10,000 of these through Walmart or Lowe’s or home Depot like that. And again, so it has to do with B2B first and then when, because of the impact on water savings and utility costs, but then also that should open the door and kind of that novel idea, social uptake curve. I think that the B2B acceptance will help nudge that. And then we’ll have the early kind of early believers who will take it on and then they’ll be like, Oh, look, this is cool. All of a sudden it becomes, it gets to men’s health. And all of a sudden this can become kind of the new shower, the step shower technology. Well,
Antoine Walter:
Actually I think if you put that into places like hotels or things like that, it covers I think, one of these crazy experiments that Robert Cialdini did when he was writing his book influence, he was testing some messages that you can put in a hotel room. You know, so people don’t use too much water or don’t, it’s the idea that tolls cleans everyday and so far and so on. And what they found out is that the things which is the most efficient is to tell people that 85% of the people that were having that same room before reused their towels and use less than seven minutes to shower. And that was the most effective message, much stronger than any other ends. So social proof is always the one which is on top of everything because we are a tribal animal. We look at our fellow monkeys, walking the streets where we all are still are somehow these monkeys and we behave like other monkeys would behave. So to come back to your, your, your smart shower, I could imagine something, you know, you see that’s, you’re taking showers, which are on average 3% shorter than the one before. And then it’s like your car, which tells you usually you use seven gallons per mile, and now you’re at 6.9 and you’re so proud and you’re just beating yourself record. So, I mean, that’s works seems to work very good with our psychology,
Steven Kohn:
That behavior nudge. And then if you get the positive reinforcement of the warm fuzzies that says, you just reduced your shower by 1.2 gallons, you know, you’re going to start your day with a chip on your shoulder now. Or if you have other shower, you know, people in the hotel room says you use 20% more than the average shower taker. Then you might go, Oh my God, thank God. No one else is in the bathroom. And you might all of a sudden go, Oh, you know, maybe I don’t need to check Instagram or in the shower. Maybe I can do that after, you know, and all of a sudden, it’s this blind spot, like you said, so, well, we are putting a lens on this blind spot that every, I mean, I’m, I’m an entrepreneur of a company called wise water, making smart shower, and the shower will be on and I’ll still be looking at my eyebrows or hair like, Oh my God, what am I doing? And I’ll jump in the shower. So it really is an every person.
Antoine Walter:
Well, I can tell you the day, you’re, I’m your first client. So I don’t have to shout at my, at my daughter because she’s in the show for 20 minutes,
Steven Kohn:
How water’s colors can relate for sure.
Download my Latest Book - for Free!
Antoine Walter:
Actually something that impressed me when I was preparing for that interview, I was having a look at your, your social media is, and the way you interact online. And it seems to me that you are aiming for that impact in pretty everything. You were defending small businesses versus large corporations, inclusive culture, versus as a lesson is sharing, paying forward. And I was wondering, you know, if I see that same thing from now, I’m being very cliche, so sorry. But if I see that same thing on Instagram lady, I’m thinking, Oh, okay, greenwashing, but here there’s a purpose, which seems to go, I mean, all of these elements fit together. So is it an impression or is it something that you wants to you’re being the change that you, you you’d like to see?
Steven Kohn:
Well, of course in my mind, someone who’s obviously drank the Kool-Aid for years. I think it’s the latter, but I guess it’s up to everyone else to interpret that, you know what I mean? Like if I see someone, you know, if I know someone who’s worked in oil all these years, and then they realized that the value in solar is there and all of a sudden they Mark themselves as sustainability, I’m going to say, okay, this person is just pivoting with the times. But I, I would hope that when you see what I, if I’m saying something, if I, you know, if I’m coming to defend black lives matters or chastising Amazon for not paying their workers better, it’s because I want it to be better. And not just because I just want sick people say, Oh, you know what, Steve key’s book like that, you know, I guess some people might call it light knighting or whatever, but it’s really more like, I can’t keep my mouth shut when I see like borderline incredulous, presumptions being made, because I know so much of, I mean, you know, not to get to that, to get any direction, but even like national elections can really be swayed by the type of narrative and information that’s out there.
So I do fancy myself, a public servant, not a hero, but when I do have a chance to share information that I know helped kind of reshape my idea about things, especially about like an idea, like homelessness or trans rights or something. If I say, Hey, you probably think you’re a good person, but what you’re saying on LinkedIn right now is making lots of people cringe and possibly like really upset if you have you thought about it like this, you know? And, and, and as I’m saying that, I’m like, Oh my God, I just mansplain to, you know, all these listeners, but it’s, I just feel compelled. I’m a bit of a chatter box I’ve been told, but I just feel compelled to share what has gotten me to a place that’s a bit more accepting or accommodating. Because if, if we all got on the same team, you know, the Alexis would be working for us.
So the fact that there’s this infighting between a group that should all be kind of voting and asking for the same things is a little heartbreaking. So, you know, if I can take two minutes out of my day and it’s a jump on LinkedIn and make a comment or share a link rather than say, Oh, you’re dumb. And I’m sorry, that’s not so helpful. If I can say, Hey, you know, the, you had actually talks about this and this article, I’d like to think I’m making a difference, but it could just be a little bit of backpacking for myself too.
Antoine Walter:
I think that’s the way that we do differences nowadays. We were addressing that on a totally different topic. But with Buren auto in a previous interview, we were talking about employee advocacy. And one of the bottom lines of employee advocacy is that people just don’t believe brands and corporations anymore. People believe people hopefully still in some cases, but your best chance is actually come. People telling something to people rather than governments, corporations, even NGOs saying things because we live in that, in that word of the doubts all the time. So I think w we’re still on that pattern that we’re exploring since, since the beginning, it’s about doing your part. And if everyone does his part, well, the associates can be only better. So,
Steven Kohn:
Yeah, and if I’m doing right by society and I don’t need to make a $4 trillion commercial on the super bowl talking about I’m doing right by society, people will know it and they’ll go buy my product because they see the impact I’m making. And so I’m hoping to do over to kind of lead by example, lead by results and not lead by a huge marketing campaign that makes people think or make them results. Ideally.
Antoine Walter:
Well, talking of impact, you know, there is this last question I like to ask in, in, in the deep dive, which is to play with, with my crystal ball and let’s make a dream. What do you see in in five years? What do you see with with your smart shower, with waste water with yourself? Where do you see this venture? Where does it head?
Steven Kohn:
Very cool. I love, I love looking into the future because everything that I think always totally happens no I would say in five years, again, since we’re just playing the game in five years, I would like to see why is water possibly no longer even selling directly B2B or B2C? We will have gotten a airlock type patent would be licensing to people who are even better equipped and have a larger impact and are getting the whitewater technology into a variety of companies. Showerheads Mowen Kohler American standard. Please give me a call back my my contacts at the end, but ideally we would be licensing the smart chart technology. We will have moved on to a secondary, third endeavor. Again, more things to put in the tool belt for people who are unfortunately going to be forced to deal with the changes of climate or the consequences of climate change since the powers that be aren’t really addressing it.
So we’d like to continue to do things that keep people comfortable, keep people healthy and just use less of our most precious resources, energy, and water. And then after that, the reason why is water exists is because you can’t live without water. You know, it wouldn’t be ideal. It would tell my social life, but we can live without energy. Right? I watched these amazing videos. These guys who make pools and castles out of dirt and water and sticks, it’s phenomenal. And they did not have internet access, but they have tons of water. So why is water is here to save our most precious resource next in line after water, I would really love to get into mangroves. As I understand that mangroves are possibly not a panacea or a silver bullet, but as far as addressing a large swath of the problems that people are seeing climate wise, that’s obviously carbon water, that’s water pollution. That’s a lack of fishery content, all stuff. It seems like mangroves are going to do an amazing job. And also just taking carbon out of the air. I think that’s something that was water might either address or partner with other groups like the mangrove action project and note, phenomenal work as a volunteer with them. And I’d love to continue to just address and pivot to whatever the most pressing and or impactful endeavor we can address, whatever that may be in five years.
Antoine Walter:
That’s at the same time, ambitious and a beautiful target, I’d say. So I’d be very glad to bring you the microphone in, in five years or even before to check how that turned out, because sounds fascinating.
Steven Kohn:
Sure. We’ll see how feasible, but certainly fascinating now. Yeah.
Antoine Walter:
If you dream too low you’re going to achieve to do as well. So very good point. And for the moon to go somewhere.
Steven Kohn:
Yeah, I have, I have real life for reality. I drink for fun. Yeah, but it should be fun
Antoine Walter:
Actually. Steven, if it’s good for you, I’d like to switch to the rapid fire questions. That sounds a good plan.
Download my Latest Book - for Free!
Rapid fire questions
Antoine Walter:
So in this last section, I trying to keep the questions short and I liked you to keep the answers short as well, but I’m not getting the microphone. So if you want to be a bit longer, don’t limit yourself.
Steven Kohn:
My first
Antoine Walter:
Question is what is the most exciting project you’ve been working on
Steven Kohn:
And why? Most exciting project will Def, I mean, obviously it’s with the smart shower, but specifically I’m working with STEM hero and the Brooklyn technical high school. We might have some youngsters who are way smarter than me coding our backend, but also we have some multifamily housing. We have some students with multi-family housing who don’t have a way to measure their water and STEM hero literally wants to incorporate our device into their curriculum for these kids to have a way to measure a shower. So that is for sure a very real and visceral way that we can make an impact. Definitely the most interesting thing right now
Antoine Walter:
Sounds very interesting, actually. So yeah. What’s your favorite part of your current job, which might be that same project?
Steven Kohn:
That’s such an interesting question. I think my favorite part is the question answered. Like this is a question to answer. This is great, but my favorite part is question and answer from investors after I make my pitch. That to me is the most that’s like Pedro, even obviously you’re always waiting for them to say, Oh, this is the best idea ever. Here’s millions of dollars that tends to not happen every time, but you’re also getting extremely valuable feedback. You’re going to hear what your pitch is missing. You’re gonna hear what you may or may not be bringing in your presentation or in your persona. And also you start to hear what the focal points of these investors are. So you might come back in three or six months, say, Hey, this, this, and this has changed. You know, as they say, how you like me now, but it’s such a wealth of information and it shows your points and shows you how to improve for the next time. So to me, that’s, there’s no better learn. I’m so early on the stage, there’s no better learning opportunity than hearing criticism and questions from a potential investor.
Download my Latest Book - for Free!
Antoine Walter:
Actually, a part of the question is really for the stupider. I’ve never pitched. So I don’t know at all. Do you have sometimes weird answers or weird questions that you think, Oh, whether you expand really in a bad way or those guys didn’t drink enough coffee this morning?
Steven Kohn:
It’s I literally thought I go, Oh no, am I in the wrong place? Like, am I like, Oh no. Is this like, like a meeting? Is this like a library meeting or something? And because I had this guy, this guy’s a nice guy. And he means, well, he’s putting together a pitch contest, so I can’t blame him, but this is the same place where the judges did not think I was any good. The audience voted me second. And I got my feedback and not only was the guy like all, I can’t believe it, but you know why his water gets the honorable mention. Cause he got wrote up and I was like, thanks. But he goes, maybe if you put some hot air at the end, then it will be so cold. And I was like, okay, puff of hot air again, duly noted.
You know what I mean? And then you just crumble that note up and throw it over your shoulder. This is clearly not your people, right? I’m not going to get mad at this guy for not understanding my concept, what it lets you know, it just circle back why you don’t just pitch to anybody because they’ll be like, what do you mean by show works fine. I was like, okay, thank you for your time. Have a great day. Keep moving the wishes. That’s a drywall, you know? So it helps you, you know, thankfully I’ve been single enough. I’ve been in sales enough that I’m okay with a no. And I just keep, you know, you find that the yeses that you don’t have to work so hard for. And those are the people who are just going to maybe just get a little bit better.
Antoine Walter:
It’s interesting. It raises two things in me first. It’s these aspect of knowing who your people are. I mean, if your people are everybody, then there’s, there are nobody as well. So it’s important to know to whom you’re talking. And the second thing is much more prosaic it’s it’s I don’t know if it’s the same in the U S but in France it’s like that when a movie comes out, if the press says it’s a nice movie, you know, it’s going to flop. And the other way round, if the press does that movie is really the worst ever. Then sometimes it also flops, but good chances that actually that works pretty fine. So there’s a disconnect between what specialists think and what people think. Exactly.
Steven Kohn:
Exactly. And to me, it’s, you know, you don’t want to say, Oh, well the people get it. Some, all these reasons are stupid. You have to think, okay, well the people got into this promise, why didn’t the judges get it? You know, everything’s a learning experience. All feedback is useful.
Antoine Walter:
So let me move to the next one, which is, what is the thing you care about the most when you’re working on a new project and what is the one that you care the least? That’s great question. What
Steven Kohn:
Kind of impact is this going to leave? Right. Like to be completely selfish about it. Right. I would love to say, I would love to smart showers successful. You know, I become wealthy. I can kind of do, you know, I get to self-actualize my personal life, millions of gallons of water are saved and millions of costs utility. So businesses have easier families who are hard of having easier. People have to walk uphill for water, just all these type places. All those people will do better. But if I knew on my, you know, towards the end of my life, that the impact that I made was that I helped, I helped catalyze the savings of all this water that we all agree is such a shared resource. To me, that’s kind of at the end of the day, what does it for me? So I’d like to say impact, like what kind of ripple effect can I make. But ultimately I think it’s also very much ego. It’s kind of just ego driven. Like how big in it. I have one, I’m one guy with two hands and one life. And I I’ve decided I want to help people. And the arena is climate change.
Antoine Walter:
That’s the thing you care the most. And what’s the one who cared the least
Steven Kohn:
How to pay for it. You know, that’s, that’s, I’m like, Oh my God. Cause I was just give me money, you know? And that’s something I’m going to have to learn the nuances of when something I’m going to have to focus on because the better I get at pay for things, the more likely they are to happen. So yeah. That’s and I say that I can’t at least about it because I have the most to learn. So it’s next on my list of things to address.
Antoine Walter:
Interesting one, what is the trend to watch out in the water?
Steven Kohn:
We’re going to get away from wasteful water in every capacity. Think about the, like I mentioned earlier, think about how you wash your hands in a movie theater, because it seems to be like a hotel lobby. So like kind of a fancy building. You have that sensor under your, under the sink. It’s touchless there’s even if you have a thing right next to it, a lot of times for the soap. So it’s completely touchless and it’s completely, completely utilize every drop of water. If your hands are out of there, there’s no water, right? So we’re going to take the same approach to the shower head, obviously that we’re doing now. But the same approach is going to be taken to kitchen sinks, Kohler. I think Moe had already made a, a foster. We can say one cup of water and it doesn’t give you one drop more, one drop less, you have your little measuring cup, ready cup of water.
And then with toilets, if you’re hanging out with the nerds and I do, you already know that when you have, you know, when we make our, you know, our tiny hole or we make our getaway home, eventually one of our total most likely be a composting toilet, right? So you might even see waterless toilets. Like you might see the urinal, but full capacity water was toilets. So I think what we’re going to see is instead of doing these grandiose projects, like trying to suck carbon out of the air or trying to, you know, although that’s important. So it was redoing nuclear nuclear. I think we’re going to see a lot more updating of old things because that’s, I mean, there’s some something going a public policy that’s low hanging fruit rather than put trillions of dollars in more desalinization plants. Why don’t we do everything we can to reduce the fresh water demand first? You know, it’s like replacing all your incandescent bulbs with led bulbs.
Antoine Walter:
Makes sense. Yeah. Do you have sources to recommend, to keep up with the water and wastewater market?
Steven Kohn:
You know, I’m, I’m still looking at myself. There’s always more things that are coming out. There’s even a bunch of new places that are specifically for like pre-seed and pre revenue, water ventures. So there’s always new stuff coming out, but right now I stick to LinkedIn and the news for like clean tech stuff usually falls under there. And then of course like entrepreneur magazine, just Google alerts for water, kind of all that basic stuff. No no fancy tricks of the trades there for you. Sorry.
Download my Latest Book - for Free!
Antoine Walter:
I’m not aiming for the fence yet. I’m aiming for the efficient and I think the sources you recommend sound efficient.
Steven Kohn:
Yeah. Google, LinkedIn. Yeah.
Antoine Walter:
That’s the majority of it right there. I think the best surrogacy in our industry often is common sense. So I’m glad that you, you give the answer and no offense to the guys, but it’s, you’re neither team GWI or team BlueTech so
Steven Kohn:
Yeah, exactly. I’m still open source still.
Antoine Walter:
Well, do you have someone to recommend that we should definitely invite on that same microphone
Steven Kohn:
I’ve been talking to and now I’m going to forget her name, but I’m really hoping to work farther with a group they’re a startup and they’re getting bigger soon farm from a box. Have you heard of this? Nope. Sorry, sorry. I’m getting my JLL question. I’ve heard this. So it’s basically a, what we would call a sea can or a sea container where there’s like nine by 12 by 12 long, large shipping containers. And basically inside of that is a complete control panel for a form, including a little bit of solar power on your soil, testing, ed, your water maintenance technology. So we would love to slap our smart pedal. Basically we, you know, it’d be contoured towards an open more outdoor capacity, but we let us use our technology on that device. So agriculture is a huge place for water conservation. So I think farm from a box might be someone really cool to talk to because she’s farther along than I am. That’s the CEO. And so, you know, her name alludes me right now. Sadly, she’s farther along than I am. And she’s talking to people where water scarcity is a huge issue. That’s why they’re hurt and so valuable. Actually
Antoine Walter:
I’d have a look. It sounds, sounds really interesting. Stephen, it’s been a pleasure if people want to call you are to to contact you after this interview, where should I redirect them?
Steven Kohn:
Well, the first place to go would be check out my website, which is www.smart shower dot U S on. There is my contact information. If you want to shoot me an email, just to get some more information, you can email me@steveatsmartshower.us. And then lastly, you can give me a call or if you wanted to talk, you know, for something relatively pressing or important intent funding please give me a call at (917) 719-6573. And just say, hello. I’d love to hear from anyone really
Antoine Walter:
Well. I’m going to put all those details. Also in the, in the episode notes, it’s been really a pleasure. I think you’re addressing a field, which I have to say. I wouldn’t have thought of myself. I mean, really one of these plants, parts of the everyday, but at the end of the day, that’s what matters. So thanks for that. And thanks for that for all these insights and the lovely conversation we had.
Steven Kohn:
And so I thank you so much for this opportunity. I love, love, love what you’re doing. You’re giving a voice to these very, that put myself in the box, but I’ve heard your other people, other guests in they’re phenomenally smart and impactful people. So thank you for this opportunity and looking forward to talking to in the future. We’ll we’ll check back in a year or two. Awesome. Thanks.
