Why is One Water the Best Way to Manage our Vulnerable Water Cycle?

We tend to put water management in silos. Drinking Water, Wastewater, Water networks, Sewers, Flood prevention… All of those have one thing in common: water. This is why you shall start leveraging the One Water framework today! It will swiftly turn into a key asset in our race to net zero water. Let’s review how, and why ⬇️

with 🎙️ Susan Moisio – Global Water Director at Jacobs, where she leads a team of 9,000 water professionals across all regions.

💧 Jacobs pledges to push the limits of what’s possible, continually challenging today to reinvent tomorrow.

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What we covered:

💧 How Jacobs’ 9’000 water professionals build for a “One Water” Team – and what it involves in the company’s market approach

🌎 How Susan swiftly grew into a market influencer – starting as early as one week into the job

⬛ How Jacobs chooses to tackle carbon topics, why, and how it rolls out in terms of timelines and goals

🌱 How there’s positive to find in the climate emergency, that can turn into a sustainable business opportunity

☁️ How water is integral to climate response topics and often features at the heart of it

🤝 How water challenges have common traits from one place to the other, and how teaming up – for instance in associations and alliances – is a way to overcome them

🧑‍🏫 How the X-Factor to strive in this new environment is Leadership, and how to enforce best practices with that regard

1️⃣ How wastewater may be the best place to start, yet not in isolation and rather in One Water approaches

⚡ How energy-positive organizations could be around the corner, and how some have already achieved that milestone

🌳 How when it comes to nature-based solutions it’s not about gray or green but rather good management practices

0️⃣ Community involvement, climate change as a universal threat, Jacobs goals and roadmap, science-based objectives, being a gatekeeper, enabling innovation… and much more!

🔥 … and of course, we concluded with the 𝙧𝙖𝙥𝙞𝙙 𝙛𝙞𝙧𝙚 𝙦𝙪𝙚𝙨𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣𝙨 🔥 

Teaser: One Water


🔗 Have a look at Jacobs’ website

🔗 Come say hi to Susan on Linkedin

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is on Linkedin ➡️

One Pager: One Water


One Water Quotes


Full Transcript:

These are computer-generated, so expect some typos 🙂

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Antoine Walter: Hi, Susan. Welcome to the show!

Susan Moisio: Hello. How are you?

Antoine Walter: I’m finding that excited, to be honest about the topic we have on our plate for today, but I have this traditional, that microphone to open with a postcard and you’re sending me a postcard from Aurora, Indiana.

Susan Moisio: All right. Well, Let me tell you about Aurora. Aurora is a very small town on the Ohio river. We are known for Our churches. And so if you were to come to Aurora and you went to the top of the hill and there’s a wonderful, building up there called hill forest, one of the original houses there, and you stood on the porch of hill forest, and you looked, you would see the curve and the Ohio river, and you would see about 10 charts.

And that’s what Aurora means to me. It’s about community and it’s about home and it’s a lot about living on a major river system. So that’s my postcard.

Antoine Walter: You’re a global director of global vice-president. I found both of them at Jacobs what’s. Is your role at Jacobs?

Susan Moisio: I am the global water director. And in that role, I lead a team of about 9,000 water professionals across all of our regions and We are what we call a one water team. And that means that we look to provide solutions across our whole water cycle and that starting with water resources, to drinking water and reuse the wastewater, convenience and storage and industrial.

And so when we focus on one water and we started doing this about two years ago we did it so that we could bring total solutions to our clients. And along the way we realized that the solutions that we need to provide need to be bigger than water. And they need to bring in our folks from our environment, from cities and places from social equity.

and We need to look at things as a system. And so that’s the team that I lead at Jacobs

Antoine Walter: you were named one of the top 40 influencers by GWI. And they made her small remark because they’re categorizing those influencers in various classes. And you were named one of the gatekeepers. So what does it make to be one of these influential person and what makes you a gatekeeper

Susan Moisio: Wow. Thank you for that question. I was very honored to be on that list, especially when I looked at the other folks on the list. So what makes me an influencer? We’ll probably just start at the beginning. When I started my career I started at Cincinnati. Politan sewer district. And the first week, the director of the utility called me down to his office and he said, you’re going to join the water environment Federation.

And I’m going to put you on a committee. I’m going to put you on a non-point source committee at the state level. And I started there and I started working in service to the industry and figuring out how can you make a difference? So I think that’s how you become an influencer is you give back you work with your clients, you work with projects, you’re part of the team that is making decisions in the organizations you’re in writing manuals for practice.

But I think it is about being present and being a part of the conversation. I had to go back and look up the gatekeeper term when you asked me that and see what they were talking about. That’s a very interesting way to put us into a list. I think the gatekeeper to me.

The role that I have at Jacobs. When I talk about the nine thousand folks, one of the things that we do here at Jacobs is we have a group called solutions and technology and our solutions and technology folks is actually a career path. They are the folks that devote themselves to a technology. And I came up through those ranks through CH2M hill.

And now with Jacobs, I was the global technology leader for wet weather management. And so. In that role, then you are responsible for innovation. You’re responsible for attracting and maintaining talent. You’re responsible for making a difference. And I think that’s what it means to be the gatekeeper is that as the water director for all these folks, then I’m responsible for that too.

And we’re responsible for setting a direction and leading them. And we like to say at Jacobs, our role is to look over the hill and see what’s coming. then get ready for it. And so that’s what that meant to me.

Antoine Walter: So talking of setting a direction and looking over the hill since 2020 Jacobs has the pledge of being a carbon neutral organization. So that’s your footprint, but you’re also working on your handprint because you’re trying to help your customers to drive their decarbonisation.

And I’m wondering what was the initial trigger for you to start that product?

Susan Moisio: That’s right. today. We’re a carbon neutral organization. And to us that means procuring a hundred percent low carbon electricity for our own operation. And we’re committed to that. Recently we updated our common action plan and we committed to including reducing our scope three emissions and doing that across our value chain by 2040.

And we’re very proud of the fact that we’re the first consultancy organization to have those targets approved by the science-based targets initiative. So we feel strongly about this and we feel strongly about working with our supply management and procurement teams to do this through our whole value chain.

Antoine Walter: How do you find the value chain To that extent up to which level of depth.

Susan Moisio: do you mean how far down our value chain do we go?

Antoine Walter: Absolutely. Yeah.

Susan Moisio: Good point. So we look at the folks that are our major suppliers and we look at the folks that we’re working with in when we go forward to a developer project for our client.

Antoine Walter: You have published a set of documents and position paper, and I’ve seen that you have listed climate respites of one of the three fundamental business growth accelerators, which is not common. I mean, many companies are looking at climate change as a driver or something we have to live with, but you are listing it as a business growth accelerator, which is to me a different way to look at it.

When was it the reason for you to look at it that.

Susan Moisio: As a company. Because we are a purpose led company. We know that we have a pivotal role to play in addressing the climate emergency, and we think it’s good business, but we also think that it’s our duty. But from the water standpoint, this is who we are. And when you look at water today When we talk about this on our water team we say, when you’re out talking to someone and they talk about the climate response, they always start with water.

They always talk about what’s happening from a flooding standpoint or hurricanes or a drought. When we talk to our families, we always start with water. so from our standpoint in water, we’re very proud of. That this is an accelerator for us. We’re very proud of this and that we get to be a part of it when we look at where we’ve been working across and I’m going to use Singapore as an example for 35 years, we’ve been working with Singapore with PUB on their integrated water management strategy. And then in California, we’re working with the folks out at Delta conveyance for that.


Project which will secure clean water for 27 million people. So we think it is the right thing to do, and we think it is who we are at Jacobs, but it’s definitely who we are as a water team.

Antoine Walter: So that’s where. You explain how you’re working with PUB That would be an example of how you work on your personal hand prints. So I guess pub is your direct next step in the value chain. How do you nudge the rest of the value chain, which is just before, so your suppliers to follow you how do you build that leadership so that they get the same path that you’re getting.

Susan Moisio: We’ve been doing this by engaging them. And we made the commitment to engage them and understand where they’re coming from. It is a process. But it’s one that we’re committed to. So some of the things that we provide to them are guidance documents so that we can show them what could be done or running webinars to support them so that we can talk through it with them.

But it is a process and it is something that takes time, but it takes commitment as well.

Antoine Walter: You named PUB, which I would qualify as probably one of the most advanced utility by many regards when it comes to. Of the strategic importance that water has in Singapore, California, qualifies. Somehow, similarly, I would say, but Jacobs, you mentioned your 9,000 professionals. You’re helping utilities customers from all sides, all kinds of other geographies.

Do you have some of them which are not to that level of maturity in which you are helping to do engage on that roads to net zero mitigating climate.

Susan Moisio: And we do. I would look at it in this way. Definitely PUB is the best of the best. And they are a leader in many things. But especially in this one and certainly California when you’re in America, What’s happening in California. Because a lot of times they are setting direction for what’s happening from a climate.

and environmental standpoint.

I’m a part of the US water alliance. I serve on their one water team and I’ve just finished working with a group of like minded folks from utilities and consultants. As part of an imagination team on as an American industry where can we go?

How should we be talking? What should we be doing? What should we be committed to? I was amazed. The level of support in the folks across small, medium and large utilities in America. So the conversation is we’re having the conversation. People are getting involved. I think it is more of a question of.

If you’re talking about PUB, are you talking about a utility in California? You’re usually you’re talking about some of the larger utilities. I think the organizations like the US water alliance from NACOA national association of clean water agencies or WEF that they’re the ones who are helping the smaller communities and everyone’s in this together because it takes all of us to work together to make a difference.

Across the water industry, people. They share what’s happening with them. They share where I’m heading to Madrid on Saturday in very much looking forward to it. And it will be a Thomas sharing on what’s happening. What’s , best practices, where the challenges that you’re having as utility each utility is unique, but I’m always amazed as I travel about how many of the challenges are the same.

the climate’s different, the geology’s different. The rainfall is different the people are often the same.

Antoine Walter: I’ve seen that you’re running some workshops, which are called net zero labs. you launched that initiative in 2021. What are those workshops and what you try to achieve with.

Susan Moisio: So the workshops are part of our, I mentioned our solutions and technology. This is part of the the sustainability group in the global technology leader for sustainability is the one who takes the lead on this. And this is about working with clients and bringing in the appropriate subject matter experts to talk through where a utility is now and where they would like to go.

And what’s possible for them? And so that’s why you need folks kind of a three-pronged approach here on these labs. One is having someone to facilitate and that’s what the sustainability folks do two, is having to need the client and the stakeholders involved in threes.

Having folks with deep domain knowledge. Because part of this is about what could you do? How could you change your operation? How could you manage things in a different way? Treating water and wastewater is complex and and making the change to something that without understanding how that would change your full operation

it’s something you have to be very careful with. And I’m reminded of that is, is we go on our digital journey folks saying, you have to understand the full process cycle. And when you change this piece of it, how do you change something that at the end of the day, we produce a good drinking water and we produce clean used water.

All of that has to be thought of.

Antoine Walter: Talking about the other road to change. I guess that’s some, if not all of your customers, their duty number one is to deliver the right quality and the right quantity of water. If they’re in water product. Or to treat wastewater to the right level so that it can be discharged or reused. Now you are bringing third elements to the table, which is you have to be carbon cautious or climate aligned, or you can find the right term to define it.

But I’m wondering, is it natural for them to put that at the same level than quality and quantity, or is it still something where you have to educate them and to tell them why it matters.

Susan Moisio: That’s a great question, I’m going to answer it. Having been a utility manager when I worked for Cincinnati. It was instilled upon me the day I walked in that we were responsible for the sewer system and we were responsible to our customers. And when the sewer overflowed, whether it was a combined sewer overflow or sanitary sewer overflow that was our responsibility, but it was really our responsibility when the system backed up into homes are flooded someone out.

So I would say that my customer. Every day when they walk in the door, they’re thinking about that. They’re thinking about how they how they can make a difference in that, how they can do the best that they can with what they have. So I see these this type of thing when you’re, whatever it comes forward.

Today we’re looking at this that’s an opportunity. It’s an opportunity to look at what you’re doing now and how you’re doing it. And what could you do differently that. Meets these requirements of net zero. And we talked about PUB another forward-thinking client of ours is VCs in Denmark and they are very much ahead of the game and looking at this and I see that this comes down to leadership.

And it’s the leadership of the utilities. And so I see that wherever we’re working across the world, that there are leaders stepping up and they look at it. I don’t think they necessarily look at it as, oh, here is something on top of it. I think it is about getting up in the morning and doing the best job you can.

Antoine Walter: It’s interesting because I’m starting to note some patterns between what you’re sharing right now. And what’s the other members of the panel that we will have in Madrid. You mentioned you’re heading to Madrid. Maria Manidaki of the key on that microphone was sharing that same remark on the importance of leadership and management and how that is going to be a key to achieve all of that.

And the second link. And the second pattern I make is with what Austin Alexander from Xylem shared on the microphone about targeting the right place in the value chain and targeting the low hanging fruit is probably not the right term because there’s no free meal, but she shared her.

If she had to pick one part of the water sector and to look at it first, in terms of decarbonization, she would look at wastewater and Xylem has published a white paper to that extent. And it was wondering if you would share that point of view. And if for you, the waste water side of things has probably a bit more potential of sorry for the term again, low-hanging.

Susan Moisio: What’s a good question. And I would not disagree that wastewater is the place to start, but I think if we only focus on wastewater, we’re missing something and I’m going to go back to what I introduced at the beginning. And that’s one water. And I think it also comes from my background of starting at a utility and the collection system.

And so when you’re the collection system you’re the folks that are responsible for getting the water where it has to go and it does not always happen well. I see this as an opportunity to look at this as a system, if we just focus on the plants and I think that’s what. Place to start in optimizing how we’re operating our plants.

But I think if we pull back and we look at this, how we’re operating our whole systems, then we’ll put the investment where it needs to go. Each utility, each area, each watershed is going to be different, but I think you need to rather that you may start at the plants in that’s a good place, but I would like for the second place to be as Jacobs is that we pull back and say, okay, we’ve got that going on.

And this is this. Past the beyond. Now let’s see how all of this is impacting the full water cycle. And is this where we need to put the investment in? Is this where we need to change the way that we’re offering? And so that’s what I would like to see.

Antoine Walter: Which gives me another bridge to one of the other panelists. So Stephane Bessadi from the Asian development bank, and here I’m talking to you as the gatekeeper, which GWI was was mentioning. At least, because what he was saying is that’s part of what they do in terms of investing is trying to invest in the next generation of technologies, which might be able to go a bit further in that road to net zero.

And I guess your role as a gatekeeper here is to ensure that even those new technologies deliver on the promise. So how do you strike a balance between. And ensuring that you still do them. There are the basic hygienic level of service with the technology you’re putting in place and on the other way to look at the horizon and think, oh, there’s a bit more potential in that we might maybe take the risk.

Susan Moisio: great question, by the way. And a large part of what what my role is. So part of it is connecting with people across the globe. When we talk about our solutions and technology folks maybe a little bit deeper into what that means. So the folks that work for me represent wastewater, drinking, water, conveyance, and storage, water resources, and industrial.

Each one of them has a global team and a regional. And so if you think of a matrix across the world, a thin mesh is what we call it across the world. So you have access to all of these folks who were doing this work. And so the idea is to look at this and be first of all, Very close to the, your clients and the folks that are doing the work and hearing what’s happening, but also being able to connect something that you might be doing and Denmark to something you might need to do in Miami, Florida.

And then. Very different utilities, very different climates, very different situations, but what is the same and how can we connect that? And and making sure that we fully understand the asset life cycle that we’re trying to manage from planning to design, to operations and back again. So that’s what I look for when we do innovations, especially as.

Going down this digital one water path is I look at it from that standpoint just because it would be cool to do something doesn’t mean that we should be doing that. And I think we always have to, I’m a civil engineer and a bit of a data geek, so you have to. You have to always think about that.

That is this the.

right thing to do. Is it going to solve a real problem? And and then if I can solve that problem here, let’s look at what we could be doing elsewhere and let’s connect those folks up and let’s make a difference. And so that’s how I look at it.

Antoine Walter: You alluded to Denmark, from a European perspective, Denmark is a bit our Singapore in Europe because they are usually forward-looking and really doing some really cool stuff. I looked up your website and there were some cool stories about what Jacobs is doing in Denmark. And I’m going to butcher the name probably, but I’ve seen that you were working with the HB Mueller wastewater treatment plants.

Can you just explain us what that project is and what you did there.

Susan Moisio: Yes. And I’m going to let you hold the pronunciation so that I don’t put your, the pronunciation. So, so the team men at VCs, one of the coolest folks that I’ve worked with very much forward thinking. And so what they were looking for in their wastewater treatment plants. was To achieve energy neutrality.

And they did that at 2013 and they did that by leveraging carbon re direction. They wanted to reduce the process energy consumption while increasing their energy generation from a bio gas driven, combined heat power system. So they also looked at, sidestream and. The stream assisted deem modification capability.

So they looked at their process a little bit further. And then the thing that I think is the neatest part of it is that they were able to do this and now they became energy positive. And then they gave that energy back to the grid. And I was in Denmark around Christmas time, last year and at this plant by the way.

And so you can see how the way that they operate. Impacts not only their operations, but they’re a part of that community and they’re giving back to that community. And so when I think a leadership, I think a mess lift that he’s the person who is charting that course and saying, okay, we’re going down this path and we’re going to make it happen.

But I think the key here is having folks that not only are leading, but also were thinking about how what they’re doing impacts the community. and so that in my mind brings us back to this idea of one water is that we look at what.

we’re doing, and we look at bringing the solution forward. That makes a difference.

And it makes a difference not only for the utility that we’re working with or we’re managing as case may be, but that it makes a difference for the communities that we live in.

Antoine Walter: If I zoom out a bit from that topic, there’s something which surprise me. Yeah. Strong of a word, but I’ve seen you involvement in the nature based solution. You have a partnership with biomimicry, 3.8. And I was thinking, Jacobs to me is the reference when it comes to engineering and probably wrong, but hard engineering.

The very serious engineering. And on the other hand, nature based solution has a bit this image of a hippie science. And I do know it’s not a hippie science. was a panel host for the innovate for city, conference where we were taking those nature based solutions. But nevertheless to me, those are two different words, which don’t necessarily mix how wrong am I with that preconception?

Susan Moisio: I would give you different terms. I would say gray infrastructure in green infrastructure. So if you think of it from that standpoint and About something that is nature based. And so, and I’m going to look at this from a stormwater standpoint. Here in Cincinnati and I happened to be in the Cincinnati office today storm water is a big driver.

From sanitary sewer overflow when a combined sewer overflow. But it’s also about how is that storm mater handled in an urban environment and you can build a great solution to handle that storm water. You also have to look at the impacts climate change on when you make that decision.

Because climate change is impacting the rainfall. It’s impacting the groundwater, it’s impacting the river. Everything is going to be impacted. And so you’re putting yourself in a position then where you’ve made a decision on this is how much storage, and this is how much we can handle.

But if you bring a green solution in, you can start to involve the community and you can start to involve handling that storm mater at the source. And now you’re starting to say, okay, let’s bring something back in. That may be, makes the community more livable. It gives us the opportunity to handle some of that storm water.

And how are we going to do that? And that’s where biomimicry comes in. I think you have to have both I’m an advocate of start with the green first. See what you can get. Let’s try to look at this as bringing the storm water paths in how you’re handling the storm are back to where it used to be so that we understand what we’re doing with that flow.

And then, you may have to bring the gray in. So I don’t see it as something that is different. I think it is a philosophy. And I think it’s something that speaks to our one water approach is looking at the total problem before you rather than we’ve tended to think over time is this is storm water, and this is drinking water, and this is wastewater and this is the river and it’s just all one more.

And so I think that’s where something like biomimicry comes in and being able to look at this as a system helps us.

Antoine Walter: I’m going to try to oversimplify it and you’re going to tell me how wrong I am. I went discussing on that microphone with Maria Manidaki. And we were discussing the concept of goods, net zero, which is not just net zero, but net zero with a positive impact. And somehow the gray side of it would be the one which is reducing the energy consumption of the plants, which is really optimizing the techniques of it.

And the green side of it would be then the regenerative assets. So really to strike that balance between. Making better watch what we already have. And on the other hand, creating something new, which is connecting to this one water. How much am I over simplifying? If I tell it that way?

Susan Moisio: you’ve introduced to a third concept in optimizing a plant, whether it’s a drinking water plant or a wastewater plant, I would say, would be also part of being digital. And I don’t see that as gray or green. I would see that as something to look at all the data you’ve got and make the best decisions that you can and use the technology use machine learning to do that.

See how you can get the most out of what you have. I was on a call with the leading utilities of the world last year, and in someone was talking about this subject and he made a good point. He said, we talk about reducing our energy use in drinking water. But one of the ways to do this would be to deal with water loss.

And make sure that we’re handling the aging infrastructure. And if we did that already, some utilities are, 40% water loss. So looking at it from that standpoint, I don’t think that’s necessarily gray or green, but that’s good management practices. And so I think. I think another bit of this gray green digital is let’s operate things in the way?

do the best that we can and let’s make sure they’re in good working order.

And and that’s a piece of it. So I do think this is a many faceted discussion. And I hope that I’m pushing back a little bit. I think it is just more complex.

Antoine Walter: You mentioned this good management practice, which I do believe is really the the common traits of all of that. Just now a curiosity question. Is it also something which you are supporting as Jacobs to, to help you CTS open rate?

Susan Moisio: we have an O and M group here in the states that operate drinking water plants in wastewater plants. So yes, we do that but also helping our clients establish good management, best management practices and how they operate.

That’s just a key part of what we do in our consulting.

Antoine Walter: Very clear. So I have a last question for you in the deep dive. It’s the synthesis of all of that. You have various time horizons. You have this 20, 40 years, the net zeros, that’s your targets. You have your footprints to be fully neutral, which is the case since 2020. And there is the global targets to, to have this pledge.

I mean, the Paris trajectory and all of that, which is more 2050, the UK, since 20, 20 13. I mean, so many dates. I’m wondering, what is your horizon as Jacobs? Where are you looking at and how do we define success by that date?

Susan Moisio: We plan to achieve net zero across our value chain by 2040. We’ve said the near term target is 65% of our suppliers having science-based targets by 2025. So we are in the process of working through that with our supply management and procurement teams. So, we feel like that’s something that we can achieve with them.

Antoine Walter: Well, Susan has been a pleasure to go into the depth of the topic with you today. I propose you to round that off with the rapid-fire questions.

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Rapid fire questions:

Antoine Walter: in that last section, I’ll try to keep the questions short and you can try to keep the answers short, but I’m never cutting the microphone. My first question is what is the most exciting project you’ve been working on and why?

Susan Moisio: Most exciting project is the Wilmington, Delaware OMFS programs 20 year program as part of the team that did the due diligence for that and help to develop the strategy for it. And now as we’re implementing it what’s exciting to me is it ties in the wastewater treatment plant and the CSO system.

And we’re developing a digital twin for both. And I see that, first of all, it’s a very progressive client and the opportunity to develop a systems approach is exciting to me.

Antoine Walter: Can you name one thing that you’ve learned the hard way?

Susan Moisio: I learned the hard way?

then I need to be more bold and that I have to just keep pushing and developing and believing.

Antoine Walter: Is there something you are doing in your job today that you will not be doing in 10 years?

Susan Moisio: I can only hope, but I hope in 10 years?

that we truly operate things as a system that we don’t look at things as storm water and drinking water and waste water in the river, but that we truly think of it as one water. And we’re going to have to get there as a planet it’s incumbent upon us to leave.

Antoine Walter: What is the trend to watch out for in the.

Susan Moisio: I think I’ve talked a lot about one water, but I think the trend, the watch for is looking at a digital one water approach and Many places they’re working on this with machine learning. I think that is something we will see more of. I think we’ll see more of folks taking all the data sources that they have and using them to make good decisions.

Antoine Walter: If you were a word political leader. First action to influence the fate of the words. What.

Susan Moisio: I’ve thought a lot about this and I’m just going to be simple. I think if I were a world political leader, I would make it to where the people who were managing the storm water were the same people who were managing the drinking water and the wastewater. And I think we would get a lot closer to looking at this as one mater if.

Quit putting these things in silos.

Antoine Walter: I would say that there’s a clear red threat and common pattern and you hinting very strongly towards this one water, which is a very interesting concept. So there’s a lot of consistency in your answers. I appreciate that. Susan it’s been a pleasure to discuss with you on that interview.

And on that episode, would you have someone just to round it off to recommend me that I should definitely invite on that same microphone?

Susan Moisio: We have a one water leader, part of my global team. His name is Joseph Daniel look and. Definitely he would be worth the conversation he’s somebody who is doing really critical work in Cleveland, Ohio.

And definitely a place that I think is another leading client with a great leader. Yeah, that’s who I would talk to.

Antoine Walter: You’ve hyped me on the concept. So definitely that I’m not very excited to discuss with him. people who have listened to all of that, who would like to follow up with you? Where shall I redirect them?

Susan Moisio: LinkedIn is the best way to connect with me and welcome the conversations. And we of course our Jacobs or Jacob’s website would be a good one to check out. But LinkedIn is how we communicate across the board.

Antoine Walter: So as always, if you’re listening to that right now, the links are in the episode notes. So check it out. Susan. It’s been a pleasure. Thanks a lot for having taken the time to discuss with me and see you in Madrid.

Susan Moisio: All right. Safe travels.

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