How to Save over 1 Million Tons of CO2 Every Year with Thermal Hydrolysis

Thermal Hydrolysis Processes are rolled out worldwide for as long as there are COP conferences. Cambi Group, the World leader with an estimated 80% market share, estimates that it represents 1 million tons of CO2 equivalent saving compared to the best available alternative.

What’s inside these appealing thermal hydrolysis processes? Let’s review!

with 🎙️ Eirik Fadnes – CEO at Cambi Group

💧 Cambi is on a mission to turn sludge into resources thanks to Thermal Hydrolysis Processes (THP)

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What we covered:

💩 How there’s no “Waste” in “Wastewater” – always worth repeating!

🏭 How Cambi’s Thermal Hydrolysis (THP) enables up to 50% more biogas production and dividing the biosolids volume by two

📈 How Thermal Hydrolysis is a 3-step process that resembles a giant pressure cooker

💪 How THP ideally pretreat sludge to put conventional sludge lines on steroids

🛣️ How Thermal Hydrolysis is a staple in the road to net zero carbon

🏙️ How Cambi’s solutions are deployed in many of the biggest cities across the World and secure a 90% market share (outside of China)

🇺🇸 How it took ten years to get Cambi’s first contract in the US and what made it a brilliant win-win

0️⃣ How more and more water and wastewater utilities take carbon and net zero pledges and how Cambi intends to support

🇨🇳 How Beijing rolled out a landmark project that reduces the city’s carbon emissions by 2.2 million tons per year

🔁 How Cambi intends to evolve its business model to increase the share of DBO projects in the company’s turnover

🚀 Cambi’s technology average ROI, staying laser-focused, getting the World to hear about Cambi’s THP, the road ahead, and the company’s north stars… and much more!

🔥 … and of course, we concluded with the 𝙧𝙖𝙥𝙞𝙙 𝙛𝙞𝙧𝙚 𝙦𝙪𝙚𝙨𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣𝙨 🔥 


Resources:

🔗 Have a look at Cambi’s website

🔗 Come say hi to Eirik on Linkedin

(don't) Waste Water Logo

is on Linkedin ➡️


Teaser: Thermal Hydrolysis Processes (THPs)


Infographic: Thermal Hydrolysis

Infographic-Eirik-Fadnes-Cambi-Group-Thermal-Hydrolysis


Full Transcript:

These are computer-generated, so expect some typos 🙂

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Antoine Walter: Hi, Eirik. Welcome to the show.

Eirik Fadnes: Thank you, Antoine. Thank you for inviting me.

Antoine Walter: I was revealing you my secrets in the chitchat just before we started, because today we’ll be talking about your process and your company, which is dealing with hydrolisis of sludge in a very specially interesting way. And that’s a topic where I was involved a long time ago and without any success.

So I’m jealous and envious. I want to understand what you do much better than the students I was doing at the time. But jokes aside, I have a tradition on that podcast, which is to open with a postcard and you’re sending a postcard from Oslo. So what can you tell me about also, which I would ignore by now?

Eirik Fadnes: Oslo is a beautiful city with land area that So covered by forests and parks. So 50% of it and if you’re extends all the way to the city center and even though it’s the capital of Norway think if you were to visit sometime and you would probably call it a village.

It’s landly. It’s probably the only city you would visit. That’s got its own highway for BS. So it’s a unique and an environmental city.

Antoine Walter: I have to say I was once in Oslo to visit our sales company for GF piping system in Oslo. And what I noticed is that from their office, they have a view on a ski track. And it was like, that’s where I want to leave. And then my wife told me you better come back. So I didn’t stay in Oslo, but , that might happen at some point.

usually don’t speak that much about myself. So it’s not about me. It’s about Cambi today and you’re the CEO of Cambi And if I’m right. Cambi is your first encounter with water industry. So all did that happen? And what was your feeling about that industry?

Eirik Fadnes: You’re right. It is my first encounter with industry. And I think that is in a way by chance. When I first talked with the founder of Cambi, what I found attractive and interesting was the fact that. First of all, it was a company with almost a three decade history. It was a company that was by far the global market leader.

They had successfully gotten their solutions installed in many of the bigger cities of the world, but they were still at the stage where they were only scratching the surface. I saw it as a great company and after having several discussions, so I got in love with the industry?

So, some coincidence there but a great fit for me.

Antoine Walter: You mentioned how Cambi is a clear leader, we’ll go a bit deeper into that in a deep dive about your 77 references, how you’re present in 24 countries, if I’m right. But right before I’d like to get the elevator pitch to Cambi, how would you do.

Eirik Fadnes: Cambi delivers a unique and disruptive technology to the water and waste sector advancing the circular economy by ensuring full hydrolyzation and maximum resource recovery. Mainly from the treatment of sludge from waste water treatment plants, but also. Difficult to treat organic waste.

So, so many cities in the world, you mentioned 24 countries, actually. I’m happy to say that we got our first contract in Morocco, So it’s up to 2 25 countries at the moment. And in many cities they use our solution to make treatment cheaper and more sustainable

Antoine Walter: So I’m noting some keywords. I picked resource recovery, circular economy, and that you’re not doing only sludge, which is something I ignored. So probably those are elements, which we’ll come back in the deep dive. You mentioned how you’re helping utilities , to make that process more efficient and probably cheaper.

I’m just wondering what is the first thing they come to you with? What is the challenge they want to solve when you start discussing with a utility?

Eirik Fadnes: It really depends. It’s not one one set of drivers. But in some cases it may be that they need to increase their capacity, but they don’t have the available land . To build more digesters, for example they could opt to go for THP, which will triple the crude throughput on existing digesters.

It could be that they’re looking at lowering their operating costs because the handling costs of the biosolids is high in the region. The fact that we halve the volume of the biosolids is also higher quality, nutrient rich. And for your pathogens and fallout order. So it really depends on the drivers in the city or in the area.

Antoine Walter: You’re in the fields, , which has long been no, really from my external I Greenfield I mentioned how I was involved a bit on my very humble level. At that time, the technology I was looking at was ultrasonic, hydrolysis of sludge. Then when I was working with Suez, we were looking at ways do these hydrolases of sludge with ozone.

And I have to say all the encounters I have seen myself were not very successful. So it sounds like there’s a real challenge in the industry, but there’s not like one be all technology, which was ruling all of that. Unless you’ve found the Martin Gale. So would you say that we are now at the stage where your process is really something which is now mature enough to have this bold statement, which you said to be a clear leader?

Eirik Fadnes: Of course it’s been a long journey you know, introducing a new technology. You know, the industry is very conservative. It takes time to develop a market for yourself. Obviously we have competitors, but our market share is 90% outside of China. So we have a very strong position.

But it’s taken time to gain that trust and to show that we are in it for the long run. That is extremely important. I can give you an example. In the us we spent 10 years from when we started working there until we landed the first contract in Washington, DC. So once you have that domestic reference plant, the others follow , quicker after, right.

It’s still long processes as you know, but it takes time to penetrate the market with a, what I would say, still a young solution in. Some people ties, but as I mentioned, we have three decades of your history. So.

Antoine Walter: If I take the example of Washington DC, what is the activation trigger? Which made you go from 10 years in the making to now you have a reference.

Eirik Fadnes: for Washington, it was a long process where they evaluated many different options for their plants. One of the benefits with THP, which they have Tim spoken about externally as well, is that they achieved investment savings of 35% or $200 million directly attributable to the Cambi THP.

And on top of that, they’re saving $20 million per year in operating costs. So the drivers in that project were extreme, right? I would call it a Greenfield project in us. You may argue to brownfield because they had existing treatment, other places but in, in some cases like that, An immediate payback or it’s negative effective, et cetera.

So, so I think that was that was one of the main drivers for why they opted to go with the Cambi THP.

Antoine Walter: You mentioned resource recovery and circular economy as some of the drivers for CAMBI and. We’ve always said it’s wastewater treatment plants, and more and more, we hear the term water resource factory, or resource factory without the water element. And if that shift really happens, then your process becomes a no-brainer because you’re just increasing the yield of that transformation.

Where are we as an industry on that shift from treatment plans to resource factory.

Eirik Fadnes: That’s a very good question Antoine. think you’re right that the sewage sludge is I’m not putting words in your mouth, but it’s an amazing bioresource. Both the biogas. The that you can generate, but also the bio-solids, which is increasingly perceived as a valuable resource for water companies and local communities.

we operate globally and can certainly see a change in perception. And for example, in the U S and in Korea, but also , in what we define as emerging markets like South Africa, Colombia, Brazil and an example of that is the national mission for clean Ganga in India, where they’re looking at not only sanitation but also a biosolids master plan, how they can make the best use of the the resources.

Antoine Walter: So what’s the driver. What is driving that?

Eirik Fadnes: I think it’s a it depends again, on where you are in some areas where you have an established mechanism to either as a public entity recharge the costs of handling the biosolids or to use private companies in that way you see a drive to have a higher quality, biosolids that opens up for more outlets.

So you can see the value of having a call, safe product that?

you can then apply in substitute to chemical fertilizer. And or use it as it’s a soil improvement. So it really depends, but if you don’t have a cost of getting rid of the biosolids and then it will end up in your backyard or in the river, and then the drivers are weak.

Antoine Walter: You mentioned THP. The terminal has releases PS for plans, right?

 I’m just trying to unveil the acronym.

Eirik Fadnes: Uh, Yes. The thermal hydrolysis process.

Antoine Walter: process. Okay. Can you just swiftly explain in simple terms how your thermal hydrolisis process works and where it fits inside the plant?

Eirik Fadnes: Essentially it is a giant pressure cooker. So sewage sludge from the wastewater treatment plant is first dewatered typically to 16% is pre-heated using recycled steam and from the pre heater, the warm sludge process through a pressure vessel. Where it’s mixed with steam until you get a temperature of 160 degrees that they seek spores pressure.

And it holds there for 20 to 30 minutes. And at the end of the cycle, you have a certain pressure drop that down to atmospheric pressure which disintegrates, the cells and reducing the sludge viscosity and making the feedstock very suitable for anaerobic digestion.

So you get the increased biogas production up to 40% and you get half the volume of the biosolids compared to conventional methods.

Antoine Walter: By how much do you estimate you can enhance the biogas production?

Eirik Fadnes: Up to 40% we have seen cases where we have achieved a 43% but generally really depends on the local circumstances. It is anywhere between 25 and 40%.

Antoine Walter: You mentioned before that the Utilities which come to you have challenges, which are. There that they want to increase their capacity, that they want to lower their OPEX or reduce the sludge volume. Is that something they have from the designing of the plants on, and then it’s a new build solution or do you, most of the time operates as an enhancement and upgrade of existing facilities.

Eirik Fadnes: We do both. Most of our projects are brownfield projects but for sure and Greenfield projects have a very strong drivers for our solution. We can come in with whether it’s a containerized thermal hydrolysis process that we put in a slab and connect, or if it’s part of a larger project where they need to increase capacity or other drivers we come in with modules and install it.

So it is very suitable for brownfield and the Greenfield projects

Antoine Walter: So I noted the containerized keywords. I’m coming back to that a bit later because I have some questions about that as well. But you mentioned also some advantages. So we’ve seen the obvious, I would say advantage that you are enhancing the biogas production. All of them are linked together, but it’s not the only benefit I was thinking, you know, we are now some days away from the global water summit in Madrid, which is going to look at how our water industry will tend to net zero and carbon neutrality and carbon positivity even.

And I would see that as something where your process has a strong assets. Is that a driver of which you see emerging and developing, would you say it is a benefit of your solution?

Eirik Fadnes: I would say that that is one of my favorite advantages of our solution. And I am very encouraged to see the pace at which water and waste water utilities. are adopting net zero setting and net zero pledges, , carbon, or climate targets. And I believe at the moment there’s around 80 utilities that set such targets that serving 230 million people.

And the number of utilities are growing. We are currently serving 14 of these so utilities they’re running more than 30 of our plants. But the drivers on carbon footprint Not the reason for many of these decisions. Historically has been the financial drivers. That’s been important.

As you mentioned, you’d get lower CapEx, lower OPEX, and that’s, what’s driven the development at Cambi and why we have. a very good market share in the UK. We’re creating 50% of all the sludge in the UK. It’s a privatized market, as you know, but the public sector is slowly coming along. I would say that what we bring to the table is a solution that will lower the carbon footprint.

Our solution has the lowest carbon footprint, irrespective of the biosolids out that. So wherever you go to land application or incineration we provided the best solution. And of course, again, it will depend on the current situation that you have, how much, how big the impact is.

Antoine Walter: you’re a brick in that wall of that carbon neutral trends, or, I mean, even if today it’s only a fraction of the utilities, which are looking at that targets. I think it’s something which might be growing. And if I’m right, I’ve seen the news where you were involved in such a project in China, is that the case?

Eirik Fadnes: in China I assume you’re referring to the five large sludge centers that we have in Beijing. , but we are also having a plant in Chongqing and also in Hong Kong. In Beijing, we treat the sludge from more than 20 million people, which is just massive. If you could compare to what they did prior to these plants being built and the today situation with the Cambi THP they’ve reduced the carbon emissions by 2.2 million tons per year, but of course they had alternatives to our solution.

Incineration. They would still have a big saving, but if you look at what is directly attributable to the Cambi THP, basically the difference between incineration and the THP. We have a saving of 400,000 tons. And that is enormous. And we have other examples of projects that’s got similar drivers.

So in a way, the fact that we bring this to the table the benefits we’re lowering your carbon footprint, but you can do that. And at the same time, lower your costs. And that should be a very easy decision to make for any utility. Right then you also have all the other benefits that talked about no older of the biosolids half the trucks leaving the plant, the community with would love you for it.

Right? That’s a as a city leader, but there is some conservatism and the decision-making take time. You can take 3, 4, 5 years before you start a project or even a decade. So it’s it’s moving slowly. And it sense of urgency is perhaps one of the things that surprised me the.

most entering this industry Antoine.

It’s it’s very different to the private industries and and how quickly you jump on things that make perfect sense.

Antoine Walter: I guess it’s the two sides of the same coin, but usually. We refer to it as the water industry is controverted for a reason. And then you can agree with it on, you can fight it and you can be mad at it, but it is what it is. So it’s a difficult field to, to that extent. But also it’s the other side of it is that it’s a very resilient field.

So yeah, two sides of the same coin, but I want to sidetrack you here. You mentioned that you’re reducing the cost. So whoever is using your process has to invest. So it’s a CapEx and then you’re reducing the OPEX. But what is your average return on investment?

Eirik Fadnes: there’s not one answer to that question. You know, the example I gave Washington disease is in an extreme case, right? You actually have a saving from day one and But if I’m to generalize again, depends on the drivers. I would say, five years plus minus in order to have a payback on the investment?

So it really depends on the situation. If you need To increase the capacity, you need to do something. Obviously learn the CapEx elements will be offset or at least reduced quite significantly. If you are doing it only to increase your bio gas production and to lower your handling costs.

So, the biosolids then obviously you’re looking at a longer payback. And then you’re looking at five years, typically.

Antoine Walter: today, if I try to unpack your business model. You have one part of the business model, which is those CapEx sales. And you have another part of the business model, which is to do design build operate. Plus you have a layer of services. If I’m right today, the biggest chunk is your CapEx sales. Is that your history or is that really the way you want to address that market?

Eirik Fadnes: That you’re absolutely right. Historically. The CAPEX sales and you, new poems, that’s been then did the lion’s share of our business. And that’s gradually changed. I would say primarily over the last five, six years where we’ve had a higher focus and attention on the aftermarket. So, you know, spare parts, sales support during annual shutdowns or upgrade of our installed base with the latest development that we’ve made And one of the things that we’re also worked on, you’re referring to the DBO segments, design, build own and operate.

That’s something we worked on for a couple of years. It’s an important strategic direction for a Cambi where we’re looking to accelerate projects, whether it’s a municipality or a group of municipalities that see a need, but want to avoid the investment. Cost burden or for realizing a project, maybe they want to expedite it.

We can come in and get paid a gate fee and we’ll going to own and operate that plant. , in a way, we are targeting to get a higher share of our business, being recurring revenue, both from the DBO segment and also the aftermarket. And my ambition is to have these recurring revenues. Cover all our costs.

If you give it 5, 6, 6, 7 years, that is my ambition, because this is a project business in many ways, you know, when the project is going to come in, no one knows. We know that it’s going to come, but you will have fluctuations in CAPEX sales. So that is important to us.

Antoine Walter: So you mentioned DBO, but if I understand, right, it’s DB double. Oh, it’s a design build own and operate.

Eirik Fadnes: Yes. And you could quote PPP projects and public private partnerships. There’s many acronyms to it, but basically owning and operating the plans. Yes.

Antoine Walter: I mean, you have the trendy way to look at it as well. Which would be to say you’re doing sludge management or biogas production enhancements as a service. Everything can be as a service nowadays. Right. And and it’s all of a sudden, much more trendy. Even if it’s the same, then the DBOO.

Eirik Fadnes: Yes, your rights, you could you could argue that we could take a plant, but the containerized one, we could come in at the brownfield projects and say if you give us the permits necessary, a concrete slab will come in with the THP, we’ll treat it. You’ll pay a gate fee as a service and you know, once the contract is up.

So we’ll we’ll take it back and the movie to the next plot. So in, in a way you could say it’s for treatment doesn’t service.

Antoine Walter: That’s a business model that we’ve covered on the microphone with Cambrian Innovation, with Inopsys, with Axine water and all what they had in common when they were on that microphone is that they explained something quite similar to what you said, that there is a barrier to adoption in that water industry.

And that somehow when you come with that business model, it’s not like, the martingale which beats all of them, but it reduces that barrier to adoption because it reduces the friction. So it just ring the bell. When you say you have containerized plans, I’m just thinking, yeah. As you said, you ask the customer for a concrete slab and then if you’re upgrading the biogas production by 40%, maybe you can get half of that upgrade.

And that’s your fee? So it’s kind of a no risk. For the end user and probably a nice benefit for you, but yeah, I’m just beating open doors.

Eirik Fadnes: Absolutely, you know, by and biogas is obviously one, one part of it. But I think what is the strongest driver in the current climate is the the fact that you reduce the volume of the biosolids by 50 percent. And it’s a higher quality, you know, giving more outlets for it. So, so that is a big benefit that, that in a situation like that you would share between the plant and Cambi

Antoine Walter: Regarding those outlets, the fact that your process is killing the pathogens, does that mean that you can have new applications of that treated sludge?

Eirik Fadnes: Yes, absolutely. And if you use a thermal hydrolisis, just you. A cloth, a product, as you said, three pathogens. And the number of outlets, very condemned apply. It goes up it may be areas that’s closer to the plant as well. And when you see in some markets in the us for example, that more and more landfills are being closed or they’re reaching their capacity.

And they’re having challenges with our solution that that can help in the day.

Antoine Walter: We mentioned wastewater treatment plants turning into water resource factory. One element of that is that you might be tempted to go into resource recovery. Is that a field you’re investigator?

Eirik Fadnes: I would with the fact that you know, bringing phosphorus and nitrogen back through the biosolids , by land applying it, if you’re referring to phosphorus recovery, obviously. That’s something that we’re keeping an eye on as well, but we don’t have any plans to do start that journey in Cambi at the moment.

I think one of the reasons why we’ve been So successful is that they’ve been very focused on where our core competency lies. And then of course we’re interested in other technologies, other businesses we’re on the outlook for candidates for M&A But in starting ourselves to develop into a new direction is not on the agenda at the moment.

Antoine Walter: So if expanding on the horizontal is not on your agenda I have a question that might hurt the former CFO in you, because if I’m right, you are, the CFO of Cambi before becoming the CEO so far Cambi had a steady. Sustainable growth. And if no, I’m thinking, you know, just out of the box you’re beating the barrier to adoption because you go much more into DBOO and and you’re much more aggressive with that growth.

I mean, you’re building containers and then you start beating the doors of utilities. Would that be a path which is appealing to you or do you want to stay on your steady and sustainable growth, which is. I mean, it’s not a judgment. My question it’s really to understand where were you’re heading?

Eirik Fadnes: We are looking at the faster growth or. There’s a reason why we decided to go public about a year ago. We raised capital in order to invest more heavily in the DBO segment. One thing is to land that first contract, which will be an, a very important milestone for us, but it’s also investing more in sales and marketing.

Basically what we’re doing. And then it’s sales processes educating the various stakeholders. I think one of the largest bottlenecks we have is marketing or knowledge about our solution. So, so increasing that awareness is is important to, to ensure when it comes to investing in growth and developing even in years that has been slow because of project execution has been on hold or new contracts have been delayed. We’ve always continued to invest in R and D. So we continue investing in that and we will continue that is in our DNA.

Being an innovative company and we did launch a new product last year and we are close to launching a, yet another product this year, which will further reduce the energy need by 30% compared to the current model. So we continue to develop both to keep an eye on competition, obviously, but also to be be aware and meet the customer needs the current and what we expect in the future.

Antoine Walter: How does that translate into the company’s structure? If my research is right, you’re 130 people. inside Cambi,

Eirik Fadnes: About 130 yes.

Antoine Walter: what are the big equilibriums? I mean, how many people are working in R and D? How many people are working in sales?

Eirik Fadnes: We in R and D I would say we are five people that that focuses on R And D. There’s a lot of people that contributes the chips in the squat, the ideas that is part of the development, of course, there’s many disciplines involved in especially in product development. And then you have the research element, which is, it’s a bit different.

And in, in sales, we we have About 15 internal resources, but we also have representatives and agents and consultants that, that work for us in some areas.

Antoine Walter: And what is your go-to market roots? Do you go directly to the end users or do you integrate into. I mean the Suez. Veolia of this world?.

Eirik Fadnes: Yeah.

Our main contacts in the sales journey would be of course the end customer. And in some cases, anybody, in other cases, it will be. Consultants early face during feasibility studies, for example. And then once you approach the tender phase, obviously the main contractors are the ones that were dealing direct.

Antoine Walter: You mentioned your IPO last year, what does it change for a company? Like Cambi to go public?

Eirik Fadnes: I think the biggest change that we’ve seen is that we are. More known in the market that I’m not talking to Norwegian general public or financial community, but I’m actually referring to the industry the approach we we have from from potential customers that inbound requests have.

It’s difficult to say for sure and pinpoint that to being due to the IPO or if it’s due to the efforts that we’ve done in marketing over several years, of course. But my hypothesis is that this has contributed positively internally it’s a bit of the opposite. We came from being a family owned business and you know, an openness where everyone knew everything that was going on as a public company you need to.

manage that information flow a bit stricter.

So in a way it’s changed combi somewhat,

Antoine Walter: You’ve mentioned how your ambition is to develop your dBO part of the business in order to secure your cashflow and not be, that much relying on the markets, having ups and downs, like every CapEx market, but especially in the water industry,

Eirik Fadnes: Yeah.

Antoine Walter: beyond that, it was your definition of success for Cambi for the next five or 10 years.

Eirik Fadnes: Beyond the recurring revenue side, I would say that the entering some of the markets that we worked on for four years.

I mentioned India, South Africa, Brazil, Colombia. Those would be important elements. But I’m also. And find to say that it would also be to enter the private markets looking at treatment of other substrates, whether it’s sanlitun manure or crops or other substrates where You know, the drivers for increased bio gas is obviously stronger.

Now. It’s very exciting to, to work on. But if we can penetrate that as he, that would be a sign of a very big success for Cambi

Antoine Walter: You mentioned that the very opening of the discussion that’s you are sludge and not only is that your ambition or are you already doing something beyond sludge?

Eirik Fadnes: We do have plants that do only food waste or a combination of sludge and food waste or already. What I was referring to now is is other substrates other than that. But of course our main mark now is sewage sludge?

But also some foods.

Antoine Walter: Thanks. I think that was a thorough, deep dive. And I think I, I understand a bit better. The realm of Cambi. And , it sounds, I mean, I was excited before I’m still excited after, so, so thanks for the openness in fall for everything you’ve shared. If that’s fine with you, I propose you to switch to the rapid fire questions.

Get Season 1's Summary!

17+ hours of tips, technical advice, business hints, entrepreneurial inspiration, and market insights condensed in a MASSIVE 94 PAGES INFOGRAPHIC

20 chapters featuring 19 experts, each one addressing a specific chunk of the water industry cake

An evergreen source of Water Expertise at your fingertips to support you through 2021 and the years to come

Book Cover: Don't Waste Water Podcast, Season 1 in a nutshell

Rapid fire questions:

Antoine Walter: So in that last section, I tried to keep the question short and you have to keep the answers short, but I’m never cutting the microphone. First question. What is the most exciting project you’ve been working on, and why?

Eirik Fadnes: Yeah. I would actually refer back to what I just dimensioned around approaching the industrial market and different feedstocks the work we’ve done in the lab and also the dialogue we have with several private companies that’s really exciting. The moment.

Antoine Walter: Can you name one thing that you’ve learned the.

Eirik Fadnes: I would say It’s a bit, perhaps a bit personal, a Antwan answer to this. 11 years ago. I I was on vacation in India and I decided to go hiking in there. And I came there, I met an elderly couple British couple in their late sixties, early seventies. And they had been to the summit and the, you know, they managed and I was thinking.

I have better gear. I have I’m younger than them. So if they could, for sure, I will be able to write. It was really a motivation for me to hear that I started walking out. Of course, I got altitude sickness. I was confused. I saw the river flowing optimal and decided okay. I need to turn it around.

And what I would have learned was I’ve set the goal, but I need to not be too fixated on the path. Right. There’s different parts. You need to listen to the ones around you. So when you said what’s your goal for next five years? I have a goal. I have a project in mind, but that may change the path to get there.

So I would say that’s the lesson.

Antoine Walter: It’s interesting lesson than me too. So very interesting metaphor. So If there’s something you are doing in your job today that you will not be doing in ten years?

Eirik Fadnes: Definitely around digitalization. I would say we’re quite good in general, the way I work. And I said, I have a notebook. I use a remarkable digital, the pencil, but for the industry or the company, I would say the remote monitoring that we’re working on as one small step in improving and digitalizing, the industry, I think that we will see in the next 10 years changing dramatically.

Antoine Walter: What is the trend to watch out for in the water sector?

Eirik Fadnes: More and more cities set the climate neutrality tab targets. And there is an opt to the challenge and it shifts is evidence and worms and adoption of new and advanced technologies. So it’s exciting times. And what we’ll see is the green transformation industry in.

Antoine Walter: If you were a word politically. What would be your very first action to influence the fate of the world’s water challenges?

Eirik Fadnes: Oh, that’s a big one as well. Of course You have the sanitation problem. If you think of the globally about a quarter or on 30% heavy access to safe treatment wastewater, which is Just extremely important to tackle. So, so what I would say is that I would look at it in a way to adopted the challenges and have have the different parts of the industry work together to use, to make sure we get safe, waste water treatment, wastewater, to a larger part of the population.

It was private money or public money or a combination.

Antoine Walter: Would you have someone to recommend me that I should definitely invite on that same micro.

Eirik Fadnes: I think it would be very interesting for you to talk to, we know Todd which is the founding head of the national mission for cleaning. In India, the work that they’re doing, wasn’t sanitation and developing plans, and then using a think tanks to come up with a plan including the resource recovery and biosalts master plan.

I think it would be a really interesting person to talk to.

Antoine Walter: Thanks for that for the recommendation. And as I said, thanks God for everything you shared in that interview in conversation. And if people want to follow up with you. Everything we discuss today, where shall I redirect them the best?

Eirik Fadnes: Obviously you can find me on LinkedIn and you can find a company there as well, or or if you want to read up more on non-company going on to Cambi dot Com.

Antoine Walter: So like always all the links will be in the episode notes. Eric, thanks a lot. And yeah, I’d be happy to check on your path in a couple of years. So

Eirik Fadnes: Thank you. very much. It was a pleasure.

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