When you think of groundbreaking innovation, you probably don’t immediately think of laundry or wastewater treatment. Yet, SUDOC is turning heads by doing just that—with a new, tiny catalyst that is 100 times smaller and 1,000 times more powerful than its predecessors.
Imagine a product that makes water treatment more efficient, reduces harmful chemical use in everyday cleaning products, and cuts energy consumption by 90%: does it sound too good to be true? Well, this is what SUDOC is making happen. Wanna learn more? Let’s explore:
with 🎙️ Roger Berry – Co-Founder & CEO at SUDOC
Resources:
🔗 SUDOC’s website
🔗 Momentum Capital’s website
🔗 PureTerra Ventures’ website
🔗 Christopher Gasson’s appearance on the podcast
is on Linkedin ➡️
Full Video:
Table of contents
The Chemical Catalyst Revolution: Meet SUDOC
SUDOC, a company co-founded by Roger Berry, has developed a unique technology called “new TAMLs.” These are ultra-efficient catalysts designed to mimic the enzymes in our bodies, specifically the ones in our liver that detoxify and break down chemicals efficiently. The challenge? Translating this biological efficiency into a robust, scalable solution for industries like water treatment and commercial laundry. And SUDOC has cracked that code.
So, what’s a catalyst, anyway? In simple terms, it’s a substance that speeds up a chemical reaction without getting consumed in the process. Traditional catalysts in industrial settings are effective but often come with hefty costs, both financially and environmentally. They use massive amounts of energy, generate toxic byproducts, and require substantial amounts of chemicals. SUDOC’s innovation offers a smarter, greener way forward by leveraging a molecule that is incredibly small yet vastly more powerful.
Why Size Matters: Small but Mighty
The new TAML catalysts developed by SUDOC are astonishingly tiny—100 times smaller than their predecessors. This size reduction is crucial because it allows for more precise control over chemical reactions. Imagine trying to paint a tiny detail with a large brush—inefficient, right? A smaller, more agile brush would give you better control and accuracy, much like how SUDOC’s catalysts provide unmatched precision in chemical processes.
But it’s not just about size. These new catalysts are also 1,000 times more potent, which means they can perform the same reactions faster and with less energy. The implications are massive: from reducing the energy costs associated with wastewater treatment to making everyday cleaning products safer and more effective.
How Does SUDOC Make Its Magic?
Berry explains that SUDOC’s catalyst technology is inspired by nature, specifically the peroxidase enzymes in our liver that detoxify harmful substances. The breakthrough came when Dr. Terry Collins, the father of green chemistry at Carnegie Mellon University, figured out how to mimic the efficiency of these enzymes. He developed a casing around the active site of these enzymes, allowing them to remain stable and functional outside the human body—a critical factor for commercial viability.
Traditional catalysts break down too quickly or require extreme conditions to function. The new TAMLs, however, have a much longer lifespan and operate under milder conditions, making them ideal for a wide range of applications. SUDOC is taking this innovation and applying it in real-world scenarios, like commercial laundry and wastewater treatment, with compelling results.
Real-World Impact: From Laundry to Wastewater Treatment
Let’s take a look at commercial laundry, one of the areas where SUDOC’s catalysts are making a significant splash. In a pilot study at a hotel in Salt Lake City, the new TAML catalysts cut laundry cycle time by a third, reduced chemical use by 25%, energy consumption by 60%, and water usage by half. Think about that for a moment. Not only does this mean lower costs for the business, but it also offers substantial environmental benefits. Less water, less energy, fewer chemicals—what’s not to love?
Now, let’s switch to the water treatment industry. This sector is notorious for being slow to adopt new technologies, but SUDOC is gaining traction here too. Their catalysts have demonstrated the ability to make existing systems like electrochemical oxidation 40 times more efficient, reducing energy demands by 90%. These numbers are game-changing for industries like wastewater treatment, where costs and regulatory compliance are major concerns.
The Challenges of Changing the Game
You’d think that such an impactful innovation would take the market by storm immediately, right? But it’s not always that simple. Berry candidly explains that the water industry, in particular, is resistant to change. “One investor once told me that the first question she asks any water technology is, ‘Do you have another way of making money?’” says Berry. The market is slow-moving, and companies are often hesitant to switch from tried-and-tested methods, even when better options exist.
That’s where SUDOC’s business model comes in. Instead of focusing solely on the water sector, they’ve diversified. They have a dual business model: one side develops and sells cleaning products that are already generating revenue, while the other targets water treatment opportunities. This dual strategy allows them to sustain growth while navigating the complexities of a market that isn’t always eager to change.
A Dual Business Strategy That’s Winning
By applying its new TAML technology to both cleaning products and water treatment, SUDOC has found a way to balance immediate revenue with long-term growth potential. For instance, their cleaning products are already being used by over a hundred customers, including a major distributor to health and sports clubs in North America. This side of the business is relatively straightforward—people need cleaning products, and SUDOC offers a safer, greener alternative at competitive prices.
On the water treatment side, things are more complex, but the potential is enormous. SUDOC’s catalysts are a drop-in solution that can be added to existing water treatment systems without requiring expensive new infrastructure. They’re already working with several large companies to test the technology, and early results are promising. Berry is confident that this two-pronged approach will allow SUDOC to not only survive but thrive in both markets.
What’s Next for SUDOC?
While they’ve already made impressive strides, SUDOC is just getting started. With a recent $10 million funding round, they’re poised to scale production and bring their game-changing technology to more industries and more applications. The goal? To become the first chemical company you could actually love, one that makes chemistry better for people and the planet.
Their sights are set high, aiming to break into utility-scale water treatment within the next decade, all while continuing to expand their footprint in commercial and industrial markets. “We want to create so many good use cases in the industrial sector and in the cleaning product sector that the big giants will come knocking on our door,” says Berry.
Looking Forward
In a world where innovation is often flashy and overhyped, SUDOC’s approach feels refreshingly straightforward: create something smaller, faster, and more powerful that actually solves real-world problems. By rethinking how we use and interact with chemicals, they’re not just making better products—they’re laying the foundation for a more sustainable future.
So, keep your eyes on SUDOC. They’re making waves, and it looks like those waves are only going to get bigger. And who knows? Maybe one day, their new TAMLs will make you feel a little bit better about doing your laundry.
My Full Conversation with Roger Berry on SUDOC
These are computer-generated, so expect some typos 🙂
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Introduction and Welcome
Antoine Walter: Hi, Roger. Welcome to the show.
Roger Berry: Antoine. Pleasure to be here.
Investment Announcement at Bluetech Forum
Antoine Walter: Actually, that conversation takes its root in a forum. We attended together some weeks ago, the Bluetech forum. We were all having a blast and all of a sudden someone steals the scene and says, Hey, by the way, we have something to announce.
And that’s you stepping in with I think it was Nick from Pure Terra who was with you and
announcing that
just assigned an investment agreement together. they were investing 4 million into SUDOC, right?
Roger Berry: That’s correct. As part of a 10 million extension of our first round.
Sudoc’s Market and Disruption Potential
Antoine Walter: I was trying, you know, to look at which box you would fit in the water world. And that’s not that straightforward.
the best I could find was wastewater bioseeds chemicals. And you’ll tell me if that makes about sense for you, that’s a market of about 730 million per year. So it’s not. small. And if I’m right, that’s the market you aim to disrupt. So first, is that the right box to put you in? And if not, what would be the right box?
And if it’s the right box to put you in, what’s the problem with that box, which you believe you can do better with Sudoc?
Challenges and Opportunities in Wastewater Treatment
Roger Berry: it’s one box. one of the powerful things about our businessis we’re really relevant anywhere you have an oxidation reaction and one of the places where oxidation is important and becoming more important is in wastewater treatment. And this whole idea of the emerging Contaminants that we have. Ironically, there’s nothing emerging about them. They’ve been around for decades and decades. The only thing emerging is really our awareness of these contaminants. 90 percent of these contaminants in Europe really come from our personal care products and our pharmaceuticals. So think of all the antibiotics you take in your own household and how they end up in our water streams.
And just as one example, , there’s an arms race between our biology and the Chemistry of antibiotics in the sense that we keep developing resistance. And so the presence of these antibiotics in our water streams is a health challenge. And more and more governments are starting to say that we have to treat these contaminants.
Antoine Walter: But there are means to treat those micropollutants or emerging contaminants, So what’s different in your take compared to the chemical way, the advanced oxidation process way, the UV peroxide, the ozone or whatever way, which already exists in the market.
Roger Berry: efficiency. So just take electrochemical oxidation as one example, highly effective systems. And you have, different companies in Europe, North America, Asia, all piloting trying to train these systems. However, they use a lot of energy. Just running all of those anodes creating all of those electric reactions. in studies that we’ve done not ours, but UMass Amherst university system in Massachusetts, using waste pharmaceuticals as a target example showed that adding TAML catalysts our chemistry here, reduced the energy demand. by 90 percent made that system essentially 40 times more efficient. And that has the ability to take that very specialized system and niche market opportunities and make it far more affordable and far more useful. Our modeling shows that over a 10 year period, we could reduce the overall costs of that system by over half.
Antoine Walter: What is the drawback? I mean, it’s 90 percent better. You should fly off the shelf and you should just flood the market. So what is the drawback?
Roger Berry: One investor once told me that the first question she asks any water technology is, do you have another way of making money? Because it’s just the market is slow to change, slow to adopt, slow to pilot, expensive to get in. And so that’s one of the reasons why I think As an investment opportunities, there’s a benefit to SUDOC and that we have different ways of making money.
Sudoc’s Dual Business Model
Roger Berry: So there’s really two sides of our business. There’s a cleaning product side and then there’s a water treatment side and there’s some areas where these kind of merge. one example, commercial laundry. is very interesting to us. And also a space where water is very critical and a lot of water gets used in that space.
So we’re not just relevant for treating wastewater, but we’re also relevant where you have industrial applications that use a lot of heat, use a lot of water and use a lot of chemicals. essentially we’re a replacement. We’re a way of making chemistry more efficient with less heat. Less volume.
Success Stories and Market Penetration
Roger Berry: in commercial laundry, we’ve had a couple of pilots, one of them in Salt Lake City in a small hotel. these are hotels that use laundry machines that are similar to the ones you have in your home, but maybe twice as big were able to cut the cycle time by a third, which means we can cut the chemical volume by roughly 25%. And we’re able to reduce the energy by 60 percent and the water use by half. Those are remarkable numbers, and you’re asked why they’re not flying off the shelf. Well, I think they’re about to. We ran that test last month. A new talent that we found is leaving a very big chemical company to join our small chemical company because he sees the value.
He’s been in the laundry business for 30 years, and it’s those kind of validations when you’re the CEO of a small company aiming to be big that all of a sudden you see people taking bets on your company with their own career. Because they see that scalability. those kind of points of trust people put into your business are incredibly validating and exciting.
Antoine Walter: So you have two sides of the business. The water business is your neat brand and the
cleaning side of it is your dot brand, right?
You keep on pushing the two, or is it like one was first to be there? And then the other one was the evolution.
Roger Berry: Well, Dodd is first. it’s not easy, but there’s a quicker take up for the market on the cleaning product side. So we’re already selling. We’re already making revenue. And one of the things that was very important to me when we started the business 4 years ago is to make this company a customer focused business in water treatment, Because of that long pathway, it’s very easy to get into R and D cycles where the culture of the business becomes about constant iteration, right?
Constant making the mousetrap a better mousetrap, constant piloting. And so having the ability to make very effective cleaning products allowed us to get customers more than a hundred customers. And we’ve just last week launched our first distributorship. Which is the largest distributor to health and sports clubs in North America called Petra A1. And so we’re very excited now Petra A1’s sales force is selling the dot product line to it’s almost 5, 000 customers in Canada and America.
Antoine Walter: We’ll go back into the developments of the company, but you mentioned you created it four years ago.
Founding and Evolution of Sudoc
Antoine Walter: Something which was unconventional when I looked that up is that you were seven co founders. How can you agree? at seven to create a company. And is it a bit odd or is it like fully natural to be seven?
Roger Berry: I think it’s a natural evolution. The company started as an academic project, right? and really around the work of Dr. uh, Terry’s a remarkable man. I mean, just imagine if Santa Claus were from New Zealand and was brilliant at chemistry. Terry Collins and the personality has a huge heart, wants to really save the planet.
and then the chemistry that we do came together to try to put the initial ideas of what SUDOC could become they then met primarily through Pete Myers. So Pete Myers is really the convener of this group. He 25 years ago wrote the book with two co authors are stolen future. And it was really the first book after the silent spring by Rachel Carson that put together this link between our chemical enterprise and how it’s affecting our development as human beings. And a lot of that science has since been filled in. But Pete was very good friends with Hunter Lewis, who made a good amount of money in the finance business. And he was best friends with Terry Collins, who I’ve described to you as the father of our chemistry. And so Hunter came together with this founding group. And for better or worse said I’ll put a 10 million into this business on one condition. And that’s one condition is that we find a CEO who’s not an academic and not a scientist and that we all agree on. they had a search and this group of at that point six found me and we went through a number of discussions and it was just an honor for me since then, all of the founders Have been incredibly supportive. But the company kind of goes forward in its other stage. we have a management team that really operatessubject to the guidance of the board. But it’s not like we’ve got 20 cooks in the kitchen.
It was a launch pad and those are our people who are incredibly bright and available whenever we want to call them and incredibly supportive. But I think , one of the really. Blessings of what Terry’s done, which is hard for a lot of, you know, inventors and academics is to say, here’s my invention, here’s my baby. And I’m going to trust you as a group of people to build this business. And you know, for the first six months, he kept saying, it’s your decision, Roger, but here’s a couple of ideas. And I finally said, you know, Terry, let’s make a deal. You don’t have to say anymore that it’s my decision and I’ll know it’s my decision and I’ll always want your input.
Antoine Walter: you’re kind of the 10 million guy.
Roger Berry: I guess.
Antoine Walter: cool.
Roger Berry: It’s cool.
Innovative Chemistry and Environmental Impact
Roger Berry: We have so many chemicals around us up until, , two years ago, the conventional wisdom was that we had 70, 000 chemicals in common usage. That was what everyone thought the number was. It was the official government numbers. A study from Australia showed that we were vastly underestimating the amount of chemicals that were in addition in the developing and in Asia. And the number is actually over 300, 000 chemicals, and these are impacting human life. other studies have shown that male fertility, which is just easier to measure than female fertility has declined by 50 percent over the last 50 years. So what that means in practice is that the sperm count of my son, not to be too blunt, would be half of that of my father.
That’s a generation change, and it’s why so many of your friends and colleagues and mine, but more of yours need IVF treatment just to, conceive. And so this is related to the chemical enterprise that we have around us. And so Terry really set his 40 years of work to develop a more efficient form of chemistry. And he studied the way the active side of the peroxidized enzyme works in your body. And primarily in your liver and creates a very efficient form of chemistry. So if your body practice chemistry, like we do in water treatment or in commerce, you would explode, right? Because it’s so highly inefficient.
It’s so much heat, so much volume of chemical. And so essentially by mimicking and creating casings that could make this molecule stable outside of the human body, and that’s really the source of the IP and the patent we’re able to create a far more efficient. Chemical reaction system. And that means we can do a lot more with a lot less heat and a lot less volume. And for us now, when we’re selling in commerce, that’s not our cell. We just need to sell based on you saving money. Cause you’re not using as much energy and you’re not using much other chemicals, but our mission. really is a planetary mission. And that’s really what drives us. It’s what allows us to attract top talent because they want to work for something that when you get up in the morning, it matters, right?
If you’re reducing the volume of these very highly toxic chemicals that we use in the world and bringing them in balance where it’s healthy with how we live. It really, it drives our
Antoine Walter: So you’re saying that the enzymes we have in our bodies are by definition more efficient than the chemicals, because if not, we would be exploding. But then you’re also saying that what you’re creating is even better than those enzymes because it’s 100 times smaller and 1000 times more powerful.
Roger Berry: And ultimately we So we’re mimicking the ac but around that enzyme in these really long protein it a very a la function within your bodily system, but outside we’ve essentially captured the best of what that enzyme does. And when I say we, I mean, Terry and the chemists that worked at Carnegie Mellon University and they’ve created this you know, here it is.
This is our little molecule right here. And, you know, that’s one gram. And if you were to take some tens of milligrams of this, it would allow me to create a one gallon cleaning product with 5 to 30 times less oxidant in that product. And that’s the difference between that product. being something that would burn you and being something that would be very hazardous to work with to something that’s completely benign but highly effective. we want to bring that same chemistry that we use in those cleaning products into the water treatment system where , we can extend systems like I described with electrochemical oxidation. We can pair with so many other systems, hydrogen peroxide, hypochlorite chemical and we think even ozone.
We’re starting those studies, too, extend those systems and make them more efficient.
Antoine Walter: that didn’t come out from the middle of a desert, if I understand right. I mean, your product is called new T A
L. So I’m going to assume
Roger Berry: new TAML.
Antoine Walter: there’s going to be an old , TAMLs somewhere, and then you’re making a better product. evolution of that old stuff, hence the new stuff.
Roger Berry: Yeah, so Terry’s , been working on this for over 40 years. And a previous version of the chemistry was effective, but had a one to one relationship between the effectiveness of the molecule and the lifetime of the molecule. And so the more effective version of the molecule you would make.
the faster it would destroy itself. And so it was very hard to commercialize in a way that would be long lasting enough to actually carry out a commercially viable reaction. , it ultimately needed to have another iteration of innovation. And Terry was able to break that one to one relationship and create what we call new TAMLs with these protective casings around that active site that have made it far more effective, exponentially more effective than the old version, hence
new
TAMLs.
Antoine Walter: You expressed how it can work with different type of stuff, but if I understood your communication right as well, it’s like the match made in heaven when you’re using with hydrogen peroxide.
Roger Berry: Well, that would be the most naturally occurring chemical pairing that we have, and we’re effectively using that pairing in laundry right now and a number of other benefits in the laundry space when we pair TAML new TAML with hydrogen peroxide and one of them is that we are really effective at preventing die transfer.
So, 1 of the areas that we are very effective at oxidizing or any dies. And so that means if we were mates and roommates and you put my red T shirt in the laundry with your white T shirt the red T shirt would come out red. And your white T shirt would still come out white. , and the other incredible sort of benefit of this is odors. And so the chemical reaction is very good at oxidizing the root of odor. So I got a couple of kids who are pretty active tennis players. And so we were a great test case here in the house because they bring back some pretty filthy, stinky tennis clothes. , they go off for their tournaments, they’re away for five days, they come back and we have this pretty rich petri dish and it’s far better than anything else we’ve ever seen. The clothes come out without like a masking smell, but they come out. free of odor. And so if you take a pulp and paper plant, that waste water stream is also pretty putrid in the sense of it smells and it’s noxious off gassing. And so those air areas again in water treatment where we can be highly effective.
Antoine Walter: But you said it from the very beginning that the water sector is not the easiest one to get something adopted.
Commercial Applications and Future Goals
Antoine Walter: And I get the mission aspect of it, but from a business perspective, why do you venture into water if you have such a strong value proposition in the cleaning side of the business?
Roger Berry: It really is core to the objectives andaspirations of the founders. our mission is driven by making water resources exponentially, more better that we can do. So it’s been part of why the investment has come it’s why hunter lewis invested in the company.
It’s why PureTerra invested in the company. It’s why momentum capital invested in the company. And it’s core to the mission of the business. We see these 2 things going very much hand in hand. The cleaning business, ultimately, it’s all water. Right. I mean, think about how you clean every time you clean it’s water. And every time we use water it’s the content of what’s in the water that goes into the cycles of the circular economy and what we do. We’re reducing the chemicals that go into water to begin with with need.
We’re helping extend systems to get those pollutants out of water. So it can be reused.
Antoine Walter: So what is the scope of what you’re offering? Is it like the catalyst we just saw in your little box? Like you’re a catalyst company or did you also design some of the stuff which comes around the catalyst or even the system around?
Roger Berry: On the cleaning product side, we are making our own products. They come in these small pouches, so we’re not shipping water all over the earth. instead of having a big gallon of liquids for doing your cleaning, you have a sachet of this chemical mixture, you pour it into a gallon of water on site.
And you’re spraying or using it in the cleaning application. In the commercial laundry, where were you talking about really large, commercial laundry facilities using what’s called tunnel washers. These things typically are like the size of a tennis court that we’re supplying dot as an ingredient.
So really. Think of our molecule here, but in a large kind of that is goes there and is mixed with water and then drip fed into the laundry system. And in water treatment. Yes we’re basically taking the chemical dissolving and either dripping in as a soluble or as a dry ingredient into a tertiary quaternary stage of the water treatment.
Antoine Walter: Coming back to what you’re actually selling., my question is, how do you get it
adopted? I’ll give you where I’m coming from when I’m discussing usually with membrane companies, they all come up to the market with a new membrane, a new material, a new something.
And they’re like, that is really good. And then they can prove by A plus B plus C kind of similar figures to what you say that it’s so much better in energy, so much better in removal and so forth and so on. But in order to get it adopted at some point, they need to go up the value chain. Just because somewhen down the line, they will be able to be only a membrane company, but to start and to get the ball rolling, they will need to build a module, sometimes a system, sometimes do a pilot, sometimes stuff like that.
Is it the same for you? Or did you manage to stay in your lane and say, no, we’re doing catalysts. And that’s it.
Roger Berry: It’s not the same for us. And I think it’s a business model advantage for us in that we’re a simple drop in additive. , you don’t need to change your hardware. You pretty much every treatment system is going to have a pump and a way of dosing in an additive. We don’t need to make an electrochemical oxidation system.
There’s plenty of very good ones around there. And there are companies, I mean, we have one example. I can’t name the company, but it’s a very large company where they had a wastewater stream and they were using an electrochemical oxidation system and adding our chemistry to that system brought that wastewater stream into compliance for water reuse.
And without it, Did not. Extending systems that are already very good, but extending them, making them more efficient to get over the line. So there’s nothing that we need to build or construct or have a customer build or construct to bring the chemistry into a system like that. We want to be the world’s first chemical company that you can love. if you think about it right now, if you think of all the chemical companies out there, can you name one that you really love? Like you might love an Apple brand. But I think this is a company where we can attract mission driven people because it’s making chemistry better. And it’s bringing these systems allowing water to be used where today it can’t be,
Antoine Walter: Does that mean that you have like a references of all the electrochemical installations in North America, for instance, and you would start hunting them down one by one and say, Hey, I don’t tell you to switch. But if you were to switch, you would rip those energy benefits, efficiency benefits.
And it’s a one to one replacement.
Roger Berry: we are and also to be clear, this isn’t magic, this isn’t a magic potion where it’s going to make everything for every target, you know, super, super better, but for a lot of targets it is, so there’s some places where an electro chem oxidation you know, some particular chemical formulations, pollutions that that we’re not.
Okay. Seeing those same results. So it depends on the water matrix. it’s not a magic bullet where no matter what the system and no matter what the water matrix looks like that we’re going to be a home run. So it’s a question as well of finding the right fits, but I would say it’s not a niche market either.
We are very good at a lot of things. that’s why we’re finding some of its interest both from the investor sector, but also from. Large companies that are wanting to test us in these systems
Antoine Walter: you’re very good points on my scale of ranking by saying that it’s not a silver bullet but you’re also opening me the door now to be the devil’s advocate. So it’s my time to be the devil’s advocate. You know, I used
to be. In another life,
a nose on guy working for Suez and, we were developing also applications in China and in China we had a hard time because China has a history of catalytic resonation.
So, very often we would bump into a project where we would say, oh, you have to go for advanced oxidation and our Chinese counterparts would tell us. You know what we have those locals doing catalytic ozonation and it’s so much more efficient. So at some point we looked into catalytic ozonation because we thought if they do it, we can’t be so stupid.
We have to do it as well. And so Sue has developed a catalyst. The catalyst was super efficient. It was making catalytic ozonation super cool. The only problem is that it was crazy expensive.
Yes, you were reaching super high removal rates, super high efficiencies and all the likes, but it was coming at such an expense that nobody was able to afford it. Now I’m tempted to believe that is just the downside of any catalyst, just because I don’t know better. So now tell me better and tell me that you don’t have that problem.
Roger Berry: well, we will not have that problem, but it’s about scaling, right? And so that’s why utility scale water treatment is in our sites for a 510 plus year purview, because today we would not be in the cost matrix to make utility water treatment relevant to what we’re doing. But it’s a ladder.
So what we’re doing now is we are targeting those applications where we can deliver a customer at least a 2 to 3 X ROI on the cost of buying our chemistry. And so in commercial laundry, that’s what we’re looking at. When you add up the savings in energy, chemicals and water. And then the other benefits of like the consumables, when you’re putting less stress on the system you don’t have to replace the tubes and you don’t have to replace other kind of everyday wear and tear items as much.
And so we’re getting more of those life cycle costs, but we’re looking at essentially a three to one ROI for the customer. When you’re looking at our cleaning products, we’re essentially either on par with the cost of a competitive product or 10 to 20 percent less because of our shipping benefits.
We’re not shipping water around, so we’re much easier to store and handle. it’s not a pitch of, Hey, this is a great green product, pay 20 to 50 percent more for it.It’s a pitch of this product will work. Just as well or better than what you’re using today. It’ll be the same price or less.
And by the way, you can put 5 times less chemical into your environment and still get those benefits. we are right now, as we speak, beginning to manufacture with a contract manufacturing organization. In our world, it’s all about the vessel size. So, can you manufacture in a 1000 liter vessel, a 2000 liter vessel, an 8000 liter vessel, those are typically the scale of commercial.
And the answer is we can, and we are. so we’re now creating thatmany kilogram. production schedule that will lead up to a ton production schedule, which will lead up to a multi ton production schedule. When we’re starting to manufacture in those many tons area, that is when our cost per kilogram is going to come into a zone that will make utility scale water treatment a viable. Market for us, but we’re very consciously targeting these industrial markets, commercial laundry electrochemical oxidation systems, because the impact that we have is still generating that 3 plus ROI, even at the cost point where we are today.
Antoine Walter: I’m super glad you added that at the end, because if not, I would have questioned why you would even think of going to the water utility market. If Gradient’s path has proven something is that Targeting only the industrial side is probably the best way to go at it. If you’re bringing a new water tech to market, and if you want to really waste your life because the impact is great, but it will take your life, then you go to the water utility side of the business.
So is it like your aspirational goal to one day be at the place that you could also go to utilities and it’s part of the mission Or can you be pragmatic and business centered and say, by the way, our biggest added value is on the industrial side. Why would we even venture on the municipal side?
Roger Berry: So there was a guy who I really like who was one of the top marketing guys from Nike, and then he went on to Lululemon and a number of other businesses. one of his points of call, he was working at Seventh Generation, and they made it a goal the goal was for Target to call them. they set themselves their own kind of objective, which is we’re not going to knock on targets door. We’re going to become so wanted that targets going to be banging on our door and they did it. so, yeah, we’re talking to utilities and we’re going to all these conferences, but I think we want to create so many good use cases in the industrial sector and in the cleaning product sector and laundry and all these other areas where it’s almost now becoming where the big giants will come knock on our door. If that happens, we know we’re being successful. We want to get sales because we have proven commercial benefits in the market. not just that we went to the right conference.
Business Model and Sales Strategy
Antoine Walter: So what’s your approach to sales? Is it a per kilogram per box per sachet kind of sales, or do you have a recurring revenue? Like people would get a registration and then you deliver regularly. Is it an espresso system? What’s your business model?
Roger Berry: We’re selling chemicals and chemical products. You buy a physical product from us and in the early stages where we’re piloting or testing with people, they’re essentially paying us for the catalyst, but also for our R and D time to be working with them to develop an application.
Antoine Walter: Does that mean that there is an off the shelf type of business and there’s also a custom type of business where you would tailor the catalyst to be really suited to a special application.
Roger Berry: so for example, we’re working with a second tier, but very large consumer cleaning products company in Europe, and they want to use our product in dishwashing, for example, because we could replace a environmentally not liked ingredient with our ingredient. Now, in this particular case, there’s more science to be done. There’s some surface chemistry applications that we need to work through. And so that work is being done right now at Carnegie Mellon university and also within SUDOC. And so that’s an example of an area where. We have a lot of evidence that this should work, but there’s more chemistry to be done, and we invest some money to do that in the water treatment world. We haven’t seen too many examples where there’s more chemistry to be done, but we do have an amazing R and D team run by PhD Matt Mills, and I think you’ve met Brady Steinbeck, who runs all of our neat platform. So essentially, the two of them are an incredible duo. To engage with industrial white wastewater treatment Brady on the application side and Matt really on the fundamental science side.
Antoine Walter: So there’s another elephant in the room, which I need to address, which is you mentioned micropollutants, emerging contaminants, you’re a us based company. US is known to be the first mover when it comes to PFAS regulations. And PFAS is nowhere to be found on your websites, which I found on one end. pretty reassuring because that means you’re not simply taking all the buzzwords because if you would, that would be the number one buzzword.
But number two, I’m asking myself, you know, electrochemical is known to be something which targets PFAS or can target PFAS. So is that somewhere on your roadmap? Or you say, no, not really what we’re looking for.
Roger Berry: 2 comments on PFAS. the 1st comment is that we do not yet have evidence that we help electrochemical oxidation systems directly. So the way that we may be benefiting these electrochemical oxidation systems is by taking the electrons from the anode.
Catalyst and PFAS Treatment
Roger Berry: And so our catalyst then expands the field of attack and allows us to get more of the pollutants in the waste stream. around the anode. But in that case, it’s our chemistry that would have to be effective on the target. And we’ve not found our chemistry to be effective directly on those incredibly strong PFAS bonds.
So that’s just one of those areas where this isn’t a magic bullet. It has to be the right target for the right chemistry. Now, that said, those electrochemical companies going after PFAS are doing tests with us because they see a benefit in using potentially our chemistry to get other things in the matrix so that you don’t use the expensive part of the system on the other parts of the water matrix and allow the system to focus on PFAS.
So we may be relevant to the PFAS treatment train even though right now we don’t see ourselves to be as relevant to PFAS.
The Prevalence and Impact of PFAS
Roger Berry: I’m All for us making every effort we can to get PFS out of the environment. PFS is not good. PFS is incredibly prevalent. We were renovating our house a few months ago, and the company coming in to do the shower doors, was trying to sell me this great, nonstick surface coating that would, stop the water from beading. And I said, hey, can you? Check if this has anything with a PF in it, either PFAS or PFOA, guys like I’ve never heard of it, calls me back the next day and he says, nah, you don’t want this. So people are still selling it. It’s everywhere.
Broader Water Treatment Issues
Roger Berry: the complaint I have is not that we shouldn’t be going after PFAS, it’s that PFAS is overwhelming the dialogue about water treatment and pollutants. there are so many other things that we should be also. talking about and getting hormone disrupting chemicals, endocrine disrupting chemicals in our waters. we have effective ways of going after them. PFAS is a very important part of the conversation, but I just want to say it really shouldn’t be the only part of the conversation.
Endocrine Disruptors and Water Pollution
Antoine Walter: I agree with you interestingly, your example of endocrine disruption is the parallel to the one that usually use.
I didn’t know the story about the change in fertility in men. I knew the stats about the change of . The age of the first periods for little girls, because it used to be women and now it’s girls because within one century, the age of the first period went down from 17 and something years to 12 and something years. I know we’re a species which is able to evolve over time, but not that fast and not within one century. It’s not possible, not humanly possible without an external environment. Help and help is probably not the right word where I’m heading with that is that usually the counter argument I received to that is, yeah, you’re right.
The stats exist and are probably true, but the contribution of water to that is probably low, meaning that air pollution does much more food pollution does much more to which I say, yeah, but okay, if you think about it, Tell me that it means that you also believe that water has a role and if it has a role, let’s look at that role.
How do you react to that objection to say, is it worth it? Is it worth running after those antibiotic resistance? Because yeah, people are still taking the antibiotics themselves. So they are building the resistance without it being in the water.
Roger Berry: the environmental context. I think it’s usually an industrial defense. To sort of try to isolate a problem and say let’s, only think of it here. we are putting chemicals all around us and incredibly large volumes and the antibiotics and the personal care products, , all of these are containing very, disruptive endocrine disrupting chemicals.
I don’t know if you know this, but Pete Myers is the scientist who coined the term endocrine disruption. So this term that we use is actually at the heart of what the mission of our business is. And so I think water plays a huge role.
The Role of Water in Society
Roger Berry: Water is essentially a mirror of our society. So there are studies of Lake Mead where literally, depending on what convention comes into Las Vegas, it shows up in the water system.
So the psychiatrists come in and all of a sudden you see some of these psychiatric meds in the water system. big gambling convention comes in all of a sudden, cocaine and other class one drugs end up in the water system. You can’t tell me that, treating our water and making sure our water is safe.
These are the same waters we’re going to drink later in the same year. To me, it’s just foolhardy to not say that, that water isn’t part of the issue of how these chemicals are impacting our own development.
Antoine Walter: you say makes objectively a ton of sense.
NABC Methodology and Water Sector Challenges
Antoine Walter: I was just heading to something you said to me before we recorded, which is you were talking to me about that N A B C methodology. So need approach benefit costs and then positioning yourself towards competition. And in that acronym, the first part is need.
And that’s where I have my question, my doubt, because a big. section of the trouble we have in the water sector is that the need is not clear. And I think that’s also something which I guess might resonate with you. We take water for granted and hence the need to get it clean doesn’t really exist because I’m opening my faucet and I’m getting water.
We also take the way to treat water for granted and so we don’t need To change that unless there’s a crisis. And then that goes to the theory of our good friend, Paul, the Cullen who says whenever there’s a crisis, then it moves, but you need that crisis to happen. is there a way around to make people realize that the crisis is there, but without all the negative consequences of the crisis,
Roger Berry: The European Union has put in its water directive the requirement that member states come up with plans to remove waste pharmaceuticals and personal care chemicals from our water systems. Is it happening at scale yet? No.
Antoine Walter: you have to spend time, you know, they voted that in the year, 2000, we’re only in 2024. So what can
you do in 24 years? Come on
Roger Berry: Right.
Commercial Applications and Future Plans
Roger Berry: Well, and that’s why we talk about these issues, but our initial use cases are about very practical commercial use cases where our chemistry can simply extend systems. So it’s, we have a very long view and this SUDOC is meant to be a company. My dream is to still be running this company, you know, years and years from now, because of the number of applications that we have in work and we be impactful. But that’s why we’re focused in the short term on commercial applications where we are very fundamentally reducing energy, reducing costs, reducing system costs and extending treatment where that’s happening today. What we need to do with our water systems now on the commercial side, and you know, this extremely well is water is becoming a fundamental commercial decision about where to cite a business, you know, the company I was referencing in in the United States where they had to come into compliance, it’s about the need to actually have water to use in their business because of the lack of water in India.
Right now, there’s a lot of movement around treating wastewater streams, not for environmental good earth, good planet benefits, but be simply because there’s not enough water to run the business. So if you’re not creating water reuse, the business isn’t viable. And so in the medium term, that’s where the need is imminent, right?
Is pressing. But I certainly hope from a regulatory point of view that they create that crisis around treating these endocrine disrupting chemicals Because we’re using these other use cases that SUDOC is around to be an answer to that crisis when that happens, whether it’s 2 years or 10 years from now. But I also think, Antoine, your generation and the younger generations know more than our generations did. I certainly was, before getting involved in this company, blind to what was going on. chemicals mean to our life. But I think your generation and the younger generations are becoming far more conscious of what this is. And I do hope that you don’t stand for it. You know, the idea if we were to run a blood test on you, do you know how many chemicals we would find today?
Antoine Walter: too much, I guess.
Roger Berry: About 600. We would find probably at least a handful of chemicals in your system today that have been banned for more than 10 years. We would certainly find traces of PFAS, right? We are carrying this stuff with us. I think we just didn’t know. I certainly know now my eyes are open, but I think more and more your generation and younger generations are aware and are going to vote that way.
Antoine Walter: I agree with you, which is the reason why I have to contradict you. Because that’s the objection which I’m hearing as well. Which is to say, yes, those emerging contaminants are not emerging, they are around for a while, but before we could not detect them. And so now we can detect them. So as we can detect them, we see there’s a problem.
I had the discussion with Christopher Gasson from GWI, and he was saying, you know, if PFAS is in 98 percent of the people’s body, then how dangerous can it be? And. When I said that , to Julie Blissman from a clarity she said, yeah, we have all the proof to say it’s carcinogenic and whatever you want.
So she explained all that, but still, I have to say to Christopher’s points that it’s true that if I have 600 chemicals in my body, then.
They’re probably not that fooled, or I would be probably by now. It’s also because we can measure more stuff that we get afraid of more and more stuff and had that conversation, not to name drop everybody, but with Amanda Sikora from Vapor, and she was saying that one of the reason why people would not want to get AI to inspect their pipes is that if AI inspect their pipes, they it will detect more defects.
And they’re not so much interested in all the defects, which exists. Because they’d rather not know, because ignorance is bliss.
Roger Berry: It’s a slow change problem, right? And it’s very hard for people to react to slow change, right? So the volume of chemicals and bad chemicals that we have in our body is not a good thing. But it doesn’t mean necessarily that it will kill you tomorrow, right? But what we do know is that it will have negative impacts on a significant percentage of us some period over time. And that’s a bad trend, right? We don’t want that trend. But then, because it’s not going to kill you tomorrow, it’s not pressing and it’s not immediate and it’s not personal. So, yeah, we very sadly learned to live with this representation of all of this chemical enterprise in our systems.
But I do think, the statistic I gave you, it’s a shocking one. Read Dr. Shana Swan’s book called Countdown that came out two years ago. and you mentioned on the male side, we believe it’s analogous for women. It’s just easier to measure in men, the 50 percent decline in fertility.
In 50 years and that it continues on that downward trend. What are we doing? This is a challenge to our
very existence.
Antoine Walter: exogenic. I mean, I also read studies which says that the problem is the diapers. Before the diapers were not that efficient. And there’s a reason why the male genitalia is outsized because the male genitalia doesn’t like to be too warm and too hot. And if you put diapers, which are too tight
well, that’s also part of the problem.
Roger Berry: Oh, there’s many aspects of the problem. Stress is another aspect to the problem. if you just look at stress in the male population. You would think that back problems would occur at the oldest age, right? And no, they don’t. The majority of back surgeries happen in the mid to mid forties to mid fifties, and it’s related to stress, you could extrapolate that example to fertility and other things. what we do know and it would cost billions of dollars to research this to a scientific precision, but we do know that chemicals endocrine disrupting chemicals interfere with the hormones that are related to fertility. we know that the amount of those chemicals That interfere have been increasing exponentially, and we do know that fertility is declining. to say that there’s not a relationship between the chemical enterprise and our fertility is foolhardy to say that the only relationship with fertility decline as chemicals is also foolhardy It’s a matrix of issues But I can promise you that endocrine disrupting chemicals are front and center of the problem
Antoine Walter: I think you made the perfect analogy with the slow change, I’m French, open secret, and we have that reputation to eat frogs. Okay. If you cook frogs, you put them in water and you bring that water always a bit warmer until The frog can’t move anymore. And yeah, it dies that way, but the frog is in the water the entire time and never wants to escape.
So, so it’s a bit the story we have here with the different type of metaphor. And with that ramble, I want to bring you back on track because you said you’re building something for the future. And one part of what you’re building is what we discussed in the very beginning, which is that you’re raising money and you’re just screwing up.
Raising Funds and Strategic Partnerships
Antoine Walter: Closed a 10 million fundraise. And what’s interesting with your path is that you’ve been raising 6 million from momentum capital. And if I’m right,
you have been working with momentum capital. So is it a bit of left pocket, right pocket discussing together? Are you have an insider advantage when you have the discussion with them or how is it to be on the other side of the table?
Roger Berry: have a very much an insider advantage and I’ll take those advantages every time we can. This was a really nice round for us for a couple of reasons. So one, Momentum Capital coming in is someone I’ve worked with before. We turned around a very good project. Difficult sustainable energy business in the Netherlands, in Europe years and years ago.
And so Martijn van Reenen and I, and other members of the team, we were in very tough situations where we had to make, sometimes ethical and business decisions. And we saw how each other behaved and operated. And we came away with a tremendous amount of respect for each other in in the business world.
going through those trenches together. And so, them coming into our new business here brings partners who I’ve worked with before into this business, who I think are going to make this business better. So that was really edifying. And then secondly PureTerra, who we didn’t know.
at all before got to know us. They are backed by the European investment bank, the IP. So they have the imprimatur of the European union behind them. They are focused solely on water and their due diligence is probably detailed as anything I’ve ever seen before. And the amount of scrutiny that they gave us around our chemistry, our business model, our team and our personnel, without having known us before. Again, was edifying because they came to the same decision that this team and this company and this chemistry was investable and they think incredibly scalable. just got better. We added two board members and Job Vanshelvin and Martine van Reynon. And we had our first board meeting yesterday and it’s just great to see, four years ago, this company was a white sheet of paper and then it was a white sheet of paper and me and and, you know, all the founders behind and now it’s a train that’s gathering steam and bringing on the right people, both as employees and as board members. And so it’s you know, it’s an incredible
Antoine Walter: How many people do work for Sudoc today?
Roger Berry: Full time equivalents would be 12 about to be 14
Antoine Walter: And what will you be using the 10 millions for? Hiring more people?
Roger Berry: no, essentially giving extending time. , we’ve had to build so much in the last 4 years of production process, a lab and R and D capability, a product definition, a product development team and now a water treatment focus. And so we really want the next 2 to 3 years to establish. The kinds of revenue that would allow us to raise a round that really takes us into being a global business. So I think in the next three years, it’s all about moving from startup phase to scaling phase. And then in three years from now, it’s really about developing this business as a corporation.
Antoine Walter: you be producing the catalyst in house or do you have your formula and somebody is producing for you?
Roger Berry: We’ve just been running our first production run with a contract manufacturing organization. That’s very important because that takes us from producing in 5 to 20 liter vessels to producing in 100 to 1, 000, 2, 000 liter vessels and that’s going very
Antoine Walter: Where I’m heading with that question, because you mentioned that is if you have like a midterm or long term plan to have your own production, then you probably want to build your business around that location. If on the opposite, you want to be the one providing the formula and then you have your partners, which are building and producing a bit everywhere, then you probably want to gain market traction in all that.
different geographies at once, and the faster, the better. So if I understand you right, your strategy is the latter.
Roger Berry: So what’s a big advantage for us if we were to launch SUDOC 20 years ago, it’d be a very different proposition and you’d probably need 40 million to get where we are today. And that’s because in the last 20, 30 years, the pharmaceutical industry has developed a whole third party manufacturing system.
this infrastructure didn’t exist 30, 40 years ago, but now all over the world, most pharmaceutical companies don’t actually make their own. pharmaceuticals, They do the R and D and they do the marketing to the customer. But the actual production is done largely third party.
So we have the benefit of sitting on top of all of that infrastructure that’s been developed. Now, we always will have an internal production capability to develop the synthetic process as we develop new variants of this catalytic system. So we will have our own production. But at least the way we assume it right now is we can benefit from the scaling of third party manufacturing in order to create the cost benefits that we need to go to market.
Antoine Walter: I have usually a different way to raise that question, but I feel like I can be a bad guy and raising it that way for you. And I’m sorry about that. Do
you have any chance of building that company to be Big and bold before a camera, an Ecolab or whoever snaps you and takes you as the cool chemical free alternative to whatever they are doing today.
Roger Berry: I think so. Yeah. I think we can become a very large chemical producer. Some of those companies that you mentioned could be very interesting distribution channels for us. We don’t have to necessarily develop our own distribution channels to be the chemical company we want to be. And so I think our focus right now is on the scientific proof and commercialization of these applications. And then we’ll wait and see in terms of how much infrastructure around production and distribution that we have to create ourselves or that we can leverage other
Antoine Walter: But when you’re raising that round of 10 million, which ends up being with two venture capital players, you don’t have at any point of time, a conversation with telling you, you know, I’m taking 5 percent today because down the line, I’m going to take 80.
Roger Berry: we haven’t sought that conversation out because we know We would like to develop our own leverage so that when those conversations happen like I said with that example of my friend, Duke Stump, who is at Seventh Generation we want to have them knocking on our door.
Antoine Walter: When interviewed Fadja Mushtaq from Oxide, arguably another type of catalyst company, she explained how some of her employees, so some of the latest people she Took on board were part of companies, which became unicorns in biotech. And that the fact that they were now jumping to Oxyle was a sign that they were on the path to build that.
And that’s, what you said about your latest recruit, which is coming from a big player coming to you because he or she says that there is that broad, not only mission, but also path to scale at SUDOC. What brings you confidence that’s going to happen in the next 10 years?
Roger Berry: I honestly feel that as a business, we really believe in ourselves. We believe we have a chemistry that is fundamentally different from other chemistries, and we’ve seen it. in ways that impact people very directly. So, you know, it’s not huge scale yet, but in a smaller scale, when you sell our products to these mold remediator companies, and I’ve as a CEO, To understand what the business is like.
I got into a crawl space with our partner and a crawl space is about this high. And so you’re in there and you’ve got these beams and there’s mold all over the beams and you’re wearing a respirator and you’re spraying these chemicals. In order to get through these spaces you’re reaching and your skin becomes exposed somehow, right?
Unless you’re like an astronaut and you know, the jobs that these guys do are just damn nasty. , people who are doing the kind of the real difficult work, in the country and why so many of them are dissatisfied because, , life is not easy and the job is not easy. And then You bring this product into that system. And, you know, one of the guys is like, I’m, I no longer have to deal with chemical brands, right? It’s done and it really is impactful. And then you look at the larger scale applications and, , it’s not my words, but this employee who’s joining us, he says, there has not been an innovation in laundry in the last 30 years that he’s been working in this industry that. Even approaches what he sees that we can do there has been no, there’s been nothing. That’s a game changer. There was a line in the industry. A guy was telling me because I was calling a reference. He says, well, there’s a line in this industry where it’s not the chemicals. It’s your, it’s the rep because everyone’s got the same chemicals. And I was able to, when he said that, I was like, actually, not anymore. Not everyone’s got the same chemicals because we have something fundamentally different. And so, you know, Stefan is joining the business because for him, he’s been in this industry for 30 years. He’s been grinding it out. He’s in his sixties now. And for him, This can be a crowning achievement for his career in an industry that hasn’t had change at all. So when you see those things, it’s not just what I tell them, but when you have that conversation and you look at the signs together and you see those kinds of results I don’t have to tell them a story. They’re creating the story and it’s building the company.
Antoine Walter: If I bring you back to the Roger from four years ago. You get approached by that team to be one of the co founder and to lead the team of SUDOC. You have your own history. You’ve been working with Nelson Mandela. You’ve been working on this North Ireland peace treaty and stuff like that. So you’ve done things which belong to history books.
And someone comes and say, I have a cool idea to do a chemical, which can maybe change laundry. I’m painting it negatively on purpose, but what’s the driver?
Personal Motivation and Company Vision
Antoine Walter: What is that single thing that makes you believe is the right thing to do for you to take that plunge, to go down that route. And in retrospect, four years later, were you right about that?
Roger Berry: ,
Antoine, , I’ll tell you something personal. It was quite a moment in time for me. In 2020, as COVID was becoming a story, on January 22nd, I had a pulmonary embolism after taking a very nasty air flight. And that’s when you have a blood clot that breaks off and it either, if it breaks off big, it gives you a heart attack and you die. If it breaks off small, it goes through your heart and deposits in your lungs. if you don’t, get to the hospital within 24 to 36 hours. You die. so there’s a 30 percent mortality rate. thankfully for my wife and my sister in law insisting that when I had this pain that we ran there. So, so I lived and Two months later, the conversation with SUDOC came to my doorstep. when I heard about what this could do, I spent the whole weekend. I put together this slide deck and I dissected what this business could be from every angle, from a regulatory angle, from the marketing angle, from, cleaning products versus water treatment. Worked on it the whole weekend because I was so motivated about what the promise of this chemistry would be without having necessarily the validation of it yet. when we had our second interviewIt was supposed to be a six week process and they cut it short. at that point, COVID is coming in and my lungs are compromised and we’re all working from home this opportunity lands in my lap. it’s been the greatest thing ever. I’ve been working for 20 plus years, both on the investor side and on the business side of Trying to turn around companies. this is the first time since 30 years ago when I did start my own company, but at a very small scale where we’ve been given this IP and really a white sheet of paper. anything that’s screwed up in this company is my fault. Because it started there and anything that’s good in this company is because I got the right people to join the mission and I have absolutely zero regrets about that.
I’m so proud of every single employee that we have, and I know they could make more money elsewhere. Maybe not in stock, you know, they have to have faith in the stock options they have are going to take them somewhere, but every single person working in our company could make a higher salary somewhere else. And they’re here because they believe in what we’re doing. it’s been the greatest job of my life.
Antoine Walter: I would be tempted to ask so much more, but that is so much of a powerful conclusion to that deep dive. I don’t want to harm the moment by going into something else. So thanks a lot for everything you shared in that deep dive.
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Rapid fire questions:
Antoine Walter: To round it off, I have a list of rapid fire question. And if that’s for you, I would switch
to
that.
Roger Berry: Yeah, absolutely.
It’s time for the Rapid Fire Questions!
Antoine Walter: what is the toughest challenge in your opinion for a water tech startup?
Roger Berry: Survival.
Antoine Walter: What would be your best single piece of advice for the founders and managers of the about 1000 early stage water startups?
Roger Berry: Focus on an unmet customer need and not the technology you have,
Antoine Walter: What’s the drop of knowledge you wish more investors knew about the water sector?
Roger Berry: . That water is climate change. 70 percent of the earth is water. If you want to affect climate change, you better address water,
Antoine Walter: What was your most unexpected partnership and what did it bring you?
Roger Berry: momentum capital and a best friend.
Antoine Walter: your first encounter with them, not the second.
Roger Berry: Both
Antoine Walter: Super short, profitability or growth?
Roger Berry: growth,
Antoine Walter: What’s the next profile you’ll hire?
Roger Berry: An expert in with 30 years of laundry experience
Antoine Walter: When you hire, sector experience or startup experience?
Roger Berry: sector
Antoine Walter: Opening new markets or doubling down on the current ones? So no third brand coming around the corner, which would be the continuation of what you did.
Roger Berry: We’re focused. We try to
Antoine Walter: What is that tool that nobody speaks about but you couldn’t live without?
Roger Berry: Feedback.
Antoine Walter: What’s the single piece of insight your ideal customer profile needs to hear right now?
Roger Berry: Chemistry can be better.
Antoine Walter: What are you desperately needing and want to raise an open call for right now?
Who’s the goat in tennis?
Roger Berry: Roger Federer.
Antoine Walter: Oh shit I was Hoping to argue with you, but we agree that it’s okay.
Roger Berry: Although Nadal and Federer, my wife is from Spain, so I might might have to change. I love them both, but do you play tennis?
Antoine Walter: not to the same level than you do, but basically speaking, I have a friend, we are playing tennis together. Like we, we play for five hours because we’re so bad that a single match always takes five hours, but we’re having a blast, but if we play against anybody else, we lose,
but we’re having a blast.
What can and should I do for you?
Roger Berry: Tell our story. Tell everyone you know that we’re worth talking to.
Antoine Walter: I guess they should be convinced by now, but Where should I redirect them to keep contact with you?
Roger Berry: Rberry at sudoc. com, S U D O C
Roger Berry: com,
Antoine Walter: Links will be in the show notes. Check them out. It’s up to you. You decided to share your email address. If you get spam, I’m not guilty.
Roger it was a pleasure to have that conversation with you. I hope to have a sequel with you when you hit the next milestone or when you raise your next round of 100 million or whatever comes first, thanks for having me.
Sharing your path and talk to you soon.
Roger Berry: It’s been a blast. Thanks, Antoine.
