Who could have imagined that water treatment could be both a strategic and a sustainability-driven endeavor? (yeah, I know, you, probably, or you wouldn’t be here, but please play along!) Yet, that’s precisely the journey Kemira is on, led by Riikka Timonen, the company’s VP of New Markets and Biomaterials. In an era where environmental responsibility is increasingly intertwined with business strategy, Timonen is spearheading initiatives that might just redefine the chemical industry.
Intrigued? Let’s dive deeper into her vision.
with 🎙️ Riikka Timonen – VP New Markets & Biomaterials at Kemira
Resources:
🔗 Come say hi to Riikka on LinkedIn
🔗 Kemira’s website
🔗 The IFF’s website
🔗 Crustatec’s take at bio-based chitosan
🔗 The World’s Bank Water Acceleration Program
is on Linkedin ➡️
Full Video:
Table of contents
A Purpose-Driven Transition
At the heart of Kemira’s transformative journey is a purposeful choice: divesting from oil and gas. Despite the inherent financial fluctuations, this pivot was not merely about numbers. “It was clear that from a strategic perspective, divesting was a step we had to take. There was not a good fit with our overall sustainability story,” Timonen explains.
For Kemira, refocusing on renewable materials isn’t just smart business—it’s a moral imperative.
Innovating for Tomorrow: Bio-Based Solutions
So, what does Kemira’s bold strategy entail? An extensive shift towards renewable, bio-based materials. Timonen offers a glimpse into this future: imagine coffee cups without PFAS-laden barriers, made entirely from biobased materials.
These innovations go beyond mere replacements, targeting efficiency and cost-effectiveness in various applications, from water treatment chemicals to packaging.
Molded fiber for burger containers and other biodegradable solutions? That’s on their radar, with a clear mission to make such alternatives not just viable but mainstream.
Redefining Raw Materials: From Niche to Necessity
Traditional pulp and paper industries may have been Kemira’s historical strength, but the company is now pushing the boundaries into new markets with a bio-based focus. Timonen highlights a significant project with IFF designed to propel engineered polysaccharides like alpha-glucans to market.
These aren’t just corporate jargon but rather the intricate foundations of future bio-based innovations. Of course, the road to scalability is fraught with challenges, particularly when existing supply chains aren’t readily equipped to handle bio-based materials at the necessary scale. “We’re taking steps to convert more and more fossils in the supply chain into bio-based materials,” Timonen asserts, underscoring the nuanced task of balancing cost and performance.
Crafting New Markets
Perhaps one of the most formidable challenges Timonen identifies is the creation of markets where they do not yet exist, especially in renewable water treatment. “There is no market for renewable water treatment. Customers are not asking for bio-based polymers; we have had to make the market,” she reveals.
Convincing municipalities and regulators to adopt low-carbon chemicals, even without current incentives, underscores the ambitious scale of Kemira’s goals. Success, Timonen argues, will be measured by new public tenders specifically requesting low-carbon, bio-based chemical options by 2030.
Battling Claims and Defining True Innovation
Kemira’s path is not devoid of scrutiny. Despite notable achievements, some accuse the company of greenwashing. Timonen counters these claims with transparency, pointing to fully audited KPIs available in Kemira’s reports.
This openness is designed to transform skepticism into admiration as the company continues its journey. For Timonen, innovation is about more than just laboratory breakthroughs. It’s about engaging customers and delivering measurable value. “Innovation in action means there’s a customer involved and a true business case behind it,” she emphasizes, advocating for a customer-centric approach in R&D.
The Economics of Sustainability
Kemira’s financial landscape is compelling. The company generates roughly 3.4 billion euros annually, with around 1 billion euros attributed to the water segment.
Timonen aims to carve out a substantial 500 million euros from biopolymers by 2030, driven by robust long-term planning and a structured roadmap. “We constantly develop performance and improve cost efficiency,” she notes, alluding to the nuanced economics that often sidestep traditional economies of scale.
Navigating Culture and Collaboration
Venturing into new markets with start-ups presents unique hurdles. “It’s very exciting but also very challenging… most of our collaboration partners are working on lab scale or pilot scale,” Timonen observes.
Managing these partnerships necessitates a blend of flexibility and strategic foresight. Kemira’s strategy is collaborative; team training and hands-on support during trials ensure a collective effort towards a renewable future.
Advising Emerging Entrepreneurs
Timely advice from Timonen encapsulates the essence of successful innovation. “Really try to put yourself in your customer’s seat, or even your customer’s customer’s seat,” she advises, stressing the importance of customer-centric value propositions.
Additionally, she highlights the need to secure funding not just for prototyping but also for scaling up innovations.
The Road Ahead
Kemira’s journey toward a renewable future in water treatment is as inspiring as it is challenging. Through the leadership and vision of experts like Riikka Timonen, Kemira sets an example of purposeful innovation, tackling obstacles in supply chains, customer engagement, and scalability head-on.
Stay tuned as these pivotal shifts unfold within the water treatment industry and beyond. The future, as Timonen envisions, is one where sustainability and innovation go hand in hand, driving a new era of environmental responsibility.
My Full Conversation with Riikka Timonen (Kemira)
These are computer-generated, so expect some typos 🙂
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Antoine Walter: Hi, Riikka. Welcome to the show.
Riikka Timonen: Hello. Thank you.
Antoine Walter: I’m super happy to have a second conversation with Kemira. In this season, I’m trying to start from the key challenge and what I identified as a key driver is that you have a 500 million target for biopolymer by 2030 for Kemira. How? Do you come up with such a target and why do you take this kind of commitment?
Riikka Timonen: Well, first of all, we’re not starting from zero, which is a good thing. So we have been tracking this kind of revenue from renewable materials for a couple of years now. And last year we were about 230 million euro. There is still a long way to go, but we already have. Kind of a pretty, pretty good [00:07:00] starting point for us.
It’s of course, very much about, uh, differentiation from the competition. You understand Gemera is not a huge chemistry company. We’re a pretty specialized from customer segment, from technology product portfolio perspective. So this is a clearly one. possible avenue for us to differentiate as well. We have a chance to do it.
So we have already so many biobased materials in our portfolio so that it is possible now to build on that and kind of convert more and more fossils in the supply chain into biobased materials.
Antoine Walter: You say not so big chemical company. You do 3. 6 billion of revenue?
Riikka Timonen: 3. 4 last year. 3. 4? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Antoine Walter: On track to make 3.
6 this year, let’s say it that way. How much of that goes into water?
Riikka Timonen: About one.
Antoine Walter: So one billion, not so small company, I would say,
Riikka Timonen: for a water company. Yeah.
Antoine Walter: When you have a target to go to 500 million, does that mean that the next step is then to go [00:08:00] fully bio based, at some point in the future, or is it not realistic?
Riikka Timonen: Depends a little bit on the product portfolio, the product chemistry. So we are applying the so called biomass balanced approach, where the end molecule is exactly the same as the incumbent fossil based one, but we have replaced the some of the raw materials with the biobased raw materials, but then we have another approach where the product is really biobased.
We start from example starch or, or then we have the polysaccharide platform that we also build on. So there are several, um, uh, different approaches. different approaches into the biobased, but when I think about from individual product perspective, reaching 100 percent might be still further away, because then you really need to go down into the chelating agents, for example, or into the defoamer or emulsifiers.
I am thinking that 90 percent we can already reach today, but the [00:09:00] last 10 percent or the last 10% percentages will be more difficult going forward.
Antoine Walter: So the 90 percent which are possible to reach, that means what needs to be aligned now is the economics or is it a different roadblocker?
Riikka Timonen: It’s also the availability of bio based raw materials.
We have some raw materials that are very well available, but some raw materials where we struggle more. So that’s one roadblock. The other roadblock is the performance. When, especially when we go into the, um, not the biomass balance approach, but the really a different starting point, we start from a different raw material base.
So then the performance is another question. We are constantly developing the performance and improving the performance. But in some cases we’re not there yet. Or then in some cases it is, as you say, it’s the cost issue. So it is a fact that the biobased raw materials today, they cost more and we cannot.
absorb all that cost into our own PML. So we, we try to kind of put some of that downstream, the value chain. So that’s [00:10:00] the, uh, a third hurdle. It’s also interesting because in the traditional raw material space, it’s very common that the economies of scale play a role, but the bio based raw materials don’t behave like that.
Antoine Walter: So you mean that the economics don’t necessarily align today at today’s prices for some of them, but even though you would be multiplying by 10 or 20 the volumes, you wouldn’t have the scale effect you expect from oil and gas, and so there will have to be cost adaptations in the market to cope with that sustainability.
Riikka Timonen: Yes, I would say so. Yeah.
Antoine Walter: That’s very clear on the Economic sides, just coming back on the, I’ll take the value chain last because that’s super interesting, but let’s start with the performance. You have two different approaches to that, if I’m right, what you just explained, which is one to one replacements, in which case you don’t have to revalidate the product is already accepted.
It’s just a different way to achieve. The final end product. And the second is to have a new product who does roughly the same, but not exactly the same. In which cases do you go for which? You always try to go for the one to one replacement. And if it’s really not [00:11:00] possible, then you would go for the other alternative.
Or is it case by case that you study and you say, Oh, here we could go for that instead of the other?
Riikka Timonen: I think that our ultimate. Goal is, is really in this new innovative platforms, but also from the customer perspective, if you think about an application like, like sludge dewatering. So if we go for the one on one replacement, the sludge will still contain poloacrylamides.
But if we come up with a completely biobased product, so then also the end of life changes for, for the sludge, for example, and also from customer perspective, now. With the biomass balance approach, they can be part of substituting or replacing fossils in the, in the value chain, but still the end molecule is the same.
They will get benefit in their carbon footprint calculations, but the end of life of, of the sludge is exactly as it is today. So ultimately we strive for the fully biobased materials, but it depends on a, on a customer. What, what is that kind of a, what’s [00:12:00] more. Value creating from the customer in, in, in each individual case.
For some customers, the carbon footprint is the main KPI that they go for. For the other customers, it might be that the, you know, they digest the large sludge in the biogas. Do you get some benefits there if the kind of a, a dewatering chemistry is different or some other end of life benefits?
Antoine Walter: I have a value chain question.
If I try to take a cooking analogy. You are at camera, you are cooks, you get raw ingredients. You cook them and you sell cakes.
Riikka Timonen: Okay.
Antoine Walter: But you’re dependent on the guys producing the raw ingredients, the butter, the milk, in my analogy, which in your case would be the, the, the source components, when you say, I want to go to bio based, that means your value chain has to go to bio based so that you can cook bio based products.
Cakes.
Riikka Timonen: Sure.
Antoine Walter: How do you nudge them into going to buyer based?
Riikka Timonen: Again, unfortunately, it depends. But for some raw materials, they are [00:13:00] very, uh, well available. So we are actually a niche, uh, buyer for, uh, for some of the really basic backbone, backbone chemistries. But then when we go into this more innovative, uh, like for example, this engineered polysaccharides, the alpha glucans for example, so then they are not that easily available.
And sometimes we also need to participate. Like for example, we have now announced with IFF that we will invest in a go to market unit for producing this, this materials.
Antoine Walter: So you go upstream and you extend to the value chain. Yes. Okay. I’ll tell you where my question comes from so that you have a bit of context.
I had the pleasure to be the moderator in the World Bank’s Accelerator program for water companies, where they had 40 startups presenting their concept and then 20 got selected to go to the next round and one of those 20 who got selected is a startup from Guatemala called Crustatec and they noticed that there is a huge shrimp waste that You’re taking the shrimps, the part which is [00:14:00] eaten gets into the food chain, but all the rest of the shrimp just gets dumped, and that’s a major environmental problem.
And what they discovered is that, you’re supposed to know that, but I’m a muggle, I didn’t know it, so you probably know it. But if you take the shrimp and you crush it, it makes a good polymer. which you can then use in water treatment. So that’s what Crustatec is doing. It’s Kitosan.
Riikka Timonen: So you see, yeah,
Antoine Walter: I think the lady from Crustatec looked at me exactly the same.
Everybody knows that. So yeah, I’m sorry. I didn’t know. Is it the kind of stuff you’re looking into?
Riikka Timonen: We have been looking into Kitosans as well. Yes. But it’s always the, the balance, the, the cost availability performance balance. So
Antoine Walter: that’s the kind of value chain you would have to build because nowadays it’s just a waste.
Nobody takes the shrimps and crushes them. But if now you say that’s what we should do, then that means the full cycle is going to be built upstream. Absolutely. What I’m curious is your role because you’re looking into the new business and your new dimensions where camera could enter into. What guides you and tells you that’s the direction we could explore?
Riikka Timonen: Camera strategy is is very clear. We have three [00:15:00] strategic pillars. One is grow in water. Second is develop a, um, renewable solutions portfolio. And the third one is grow digital services. So I’m mainly working with the, with the second pillar, which is the grow renewable solutions portfolio. So my Guiding North Star is the word renewable.
We really want to kind of look at our supply chain and systematically in a structured way, gradually over time, replace more and more offering to be based on renewable materials. So, for example, in the area of water treatment, that is what we’re doing. Now, then we have another dimension, which is the new markets.
And there, I think that the red thread or the North star is the cellulose fiber. So Kemera has been, uh, dealing with cellulosic fibers for 100 years or, or even more. So serving our customers in the pulp and paper industry. So we know everything about cellulosic [00:16:00] chemistry. Now there is a big trend for replacing plastics in many of our customer segments.
So that’s another kind of a path that we follow. What all you can do with bio based fiber, cellulosic fiber, be it the textiles, be it the packaging materials, molded fiber, for example. So those would be the two levers that, that we have.
Antoine Walter: We were sitting in a round table together just minutes ago, and you gave an example on packaging.
Is that the type of work which you’re leading as Chemera?
Riikka Timonen: Absolutely. So
Antoine Walter: the example was. This, we don’t have one now, but there’s this cups like carton cups, which you see paper cups for, for coffee today, they have an inner cover, which is made of plastics made of PFAS because you want it to be paper, but you still want it to hold your hot coffee.
And so you would be looking into alternative materials to still hold those capacities that you don’t spill all your coffee on you, but without using paper.
Riikka Timonen: Absolutely. That’s it. That’s a huge area where we also work on. [00:17:00] Yes, we are a huge bio based, we call it a bio based barrier or renewable barrier program, but that’s one of the main development areas that we work on.
Antoine Walter: What’s your freedom for creativity in your role? Do you have like, there are still some taboos or there’s still some limits because we are. a historical company with some boundaries or can you really destroy everything as long as it works?
Riikka Timonen: Um, my freedom to, I, I consider that my freedom to operate is really big.
So I see it is that it’s about presenting the business case. I’m free to present any sort of a business case. Sometimes, you know, it’s been regarded as positive and sometimes I get an explanation so that this is not flying maybe this time or for this and these reasons, but I don’t feel that I’m being held back about not presenting the ideas.
But then I also do accept that not all of them, we cannot execute on everything.
Antoine Walter: So what would be the decision process? You come with a new possible material, new possible source, or you say, we have to internalize [00:18:00] that as part of the vertical. How long does it take to go through the stages? And would you maybe have an example of something that you Took through all the steps and which is now market ready
Riikka Timonen: at the moment.
There are some initiatives, but they are not there yet. So I’m I don’t not willing to discuss them, but I think that we are approaching a decision point and it’s been taken now 1. 5 years from the idea to a decision,
Antoine Walter: which is pretty fast. It is
Riikka Timonen: pretty fast, but it has required a lot of. Uh, data collection, market studies, uh, technology development.
So it’s been a pretty, um, resource intensive exercise. Let’s put it like that. I’m working in a special unit, the growth accelerator unit. So maybe I have also a little bit more freedom to operate compared to maybe someone who is working in the base business.
Antoine Walter: But just stats is already interesting. You biobased material as a defensive move.
Like, oil and gas is gonna be faded out, fossil fuel is gonna be faded out. We have, if you want to survive, to move to that area. But the [00:19:00] fact that You take that as a growth acceleration path means that there is added value for the value chain to go that direction. How does the market react?
Riikka Timonen: I think the overall response has been extremely, uh, extremely positive, even a bit surprisingly positive.
Um, But of course, if you think about Gemira’s customers, we’re dealing with pulp and paper customers and then with water treatment customers. The pulp and paper customers are all about biobased material themselves. It’s a cellulosic fiber, so for them it’s a super beneficial that if they develop now a, um, packaging material that is supposed to be home compostable, fully biobased and biodegradable.
They need us to come up with, uh, with, with the biobased barrier technology to, to achieve their end goal. Then in the water treatment side, we tend to deal a lot with the municipalities. I had my questions because They are not very willing to absorb extra costs, but still we have been able to increase our sales [00:20:00] within the last year pretty successfully because there has been more of this kind of a voluntary wish to be part of solving the problem.
replacing the plastics in the value chain, reducing the carbon footprint of water treatment. So even though there is no kind of a business, a direct business incentive there, but still there seems to be some sort of an incentive to go for the bio based materials. It’s been actually surprisingly a positive
Antoine Walter: response.
Probably a tricky question, so I apologize for that. When I published the interview with Tuya last year, I got, let’s say, an 80 20 satisfaction rate. roughly. 80 percent of the people say, Hey, nice, that’s camera is going that direction. And the other 20 percent said, Yeah, that’s
Riikka Timonen: greenwashing.
Antoine Walter: How do you react to that?
Riikka Timonen: First of all, we have the KPI, which is completely transparent, and also through truly validated. So it gives a pretty good backbone to be able to demonstrate in numbers so that we’re [00:21:00] really really going to that direction. And if you think that the ultimate half a billion, it’s still a pretty hefty share of the 3.
5 million or whatever we will be at that point, but, or compared to today’s number. So it’s, it’s not like a insignificant number. Then on the other hand, if we think about from the product level, so for the biomass balance approach, we rely on this ISS certification, and it’s a pretty. Kind of a strict certification body and a program.
So we are really certifying that every kilo of biomass balance product we sell, we have, uh, used, uh, respective amount of biobased raw materials to, to produce the products. So those would be my, my two counter arguments for the greenwashing claims.
Antoine Walter: And those indicators are to be found in your yearly reports.
So if people want to Yes. So yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. You mentioned. Three kind of drivers, renewable, which is your number one. And then the two others are growing water [00:22:00] and digital. Would you work on those two as well? No,
Riikka Timonen: those are not in my responsibility area. Those are more in the, in the base business responsibility area.
So
Antoine Walter: the base business is trying to make it. Digital and growing the water and you’re then looking at future proof the company by going into the renewable. You are also in charge of new markets. What are new markets for an established company like Chimera?
Riikka Timonen: Here we kind of, uh, follow the, uh, the cellulosic fiber.
We have, um, couple of, for example, molded fiber market is a, is a very interesting one. Are you familiar with the.
Antoine Walter: Not so much.
Riikka Timonen: We are, for example, when you today go to buy your hamburger, it comes in a clam shell. And earlier it was always done from polystyrene foam. Now we want to replace that with fiber based packaging.
It can be carton board based, but more and more it’s molded fiber based. So you take the fiber mass and you mold the form that you want to. So that’s an area where we work on so we can utilize. Quite a lot of our, um, existing portfolio, but we also need to [00:23:00] come up with new offering, especially in the oil and grease barrier, water vapor barrier, uh, domain where we need to develop new offering.
Another big trend is the textile. industry. All these fast fashion trends and the consumption of textile fibers increasing through the roof. And the main sources for fibers today are either cotton or then synthetics. And from cotton, we know that it cannot grow anymore. Farming of cotton requires a lot of land and, and water and consumes a lot of pesticides.
So it seems that the kind of a cotton production has achieved is, is, is. It’s big. Yeah, if nothing is done, so then it will be the plastic fibers or the synthetic fibers that kind of fill the gap to, to the increasing demand. So more and more demand is now, uh, going towards cellulosic textile fibers. And here we talk about, uh, viscose.
I don’t know if you knew, but
Antoine Walter: viscose. Yeah, [00:24:00] a little bit.
Riikka Timonen: Liocel as well. And there are a lot of startups. Textile recycling is also lifting its head now. I just received a message that Renewcell has now been kind of, uh, they’re rescued as a new owner. And they have a lot of chemistry needs there, but it’s still the same cellulosic fiber that we’ve been dealing with for ages.
So that’s another area where we work now very closely.
Antoine Walter: How do you handle that culturally? Because if it’s a lot of startups, you’re used to work with the pulp and paper industry, right? Absolutely. with the water industry, which are pretty established. And now you have to work with the cool kids. Yes. How does that change?
Riikka Timonen: That is actually, it’s very exciting, but it’s also very challenging. For example, from forecasting perspective, most of our, um, collaboration partners are working on a lab scale, pilot scale. And the next step is to really invest in a commercial scale production. Requires a lot of capex. Funding, and it’s not easy, especially in Europe in the [00:25:00] past few years.
So it requires that you need to understand their process, their competitiveness, their ultimate product cost, their technology, but also you need to have a bit of a tolerance to kind of a changing plans. That’s the fact.
Antoine Walter: Does that mean that you are. Developing some of your formulas for those players and you need to decide if it’s worth it.
Riikka Timonen: Yes, absolutely. But so far we, luckily, we see that, um, the things we’ve developed, they are applicable to, to many different end uses. So in that sense, but we are very careful for, for going into completely tailor making because that might backfire.
Antoine Walter: This morning you presented your Ikigai and you started your Ikigai By mentioning how your company divested from oil and gas, what drives this kind of moves?
Economically speaking, it’s maybe not the best thing to do. Who sets the bar as to where purpose trumps the economics?
Riikka Timonen: It’s a great question. I’ve been asking that for my whole career life, but this time, I think that the purpose won. Oil and gas, [00:26:00] Forgemir has always been a very cyclical business, but in this particular time, they were in the up cycle.
So indeed, there’s been some discussion in, in, in the external media about how economically or financially wise this decision or move was. at this point of time, but it was clear that, uh, from strategic perspective, that was a step we had to take. Also, there was not a good fit with our overall story and especially the sustainability story.
To me, that was a purpose driven decision more than anything else.
Antoine Walter: Which I would believe is the number one perk because you say to me, you presented it as part of your Ikigai. A company is the sum of the people working for the company. And you probably belong a bit more to a company who does this kind of purpose move, if that’s close to your heart, nothing against Philip Morris, but I would not go work for Philip Morris.
Riikka Timonen: No, that’s exactly the same for me. I need to feel really proud of, of the company that I work for. We have been building this growth accelerator team. So I feel that what I’ve [00:27:00] done for the past year is recruitment. So I’m becoming a headhunter soon. But really every time I ask. What do you know of the company?
And why do, why did you apply? And almost in 99 percent of the cases, the answer is that I like what Gemera does. I like the company’s purpose and I like the sustainability story. It’s really kind of an, from employer brand perspective, seems to be a, a, an important factor as well.
Antoine Walter: You’ve been hiring for the past year.
Are you still hiring?
Riikka Timonen: Yes, I am.
Antoine Walter: So if anyone wants to apply and feels a good connection to the sense of purpose, you will come to that at the end, but you have the links to contact in the show notes. Coming back to you personally and the impact that you’re building. We spoke about Chimera’s targets of the half a billion biobased.
We spoke how you’re working on the renewables. 2030 is pretty far in the future. What? are the milestones which you’re putting in between? What needs to happen by 2025? And beyond the half a billion, what is your [00:28:00] personal measure for impact that you say, looking back in 2030, Oh, I did great.
Riikka Timonen: First of all, we have, of course, our, like every business, we have a long range planning.
And we actually, we follow up on a monthly basis, we have a monthly kind of revenue target for the renewables portfolio and a roadmap towards the 2020. So it’s a pretty, pretty robust system. There are also some corrective actions if we see that, for example, we’re lagging behind. But of course, pricing, um, is also a, a big lever in this target.
So we need to not just look at the revenue euros, but also the, how are the volumes. developing, but there is a robust system there. Then we are of course, um, looking from the product supply perspective. I mentioned this example of this go to market unit for the Alpha Glucon platform that we have now announced together with IFF.
There are other projects cooking there as well to make sure that we have enough from the supplies. side to reach the set target.
Antoine Walter: So that [00:29:00] means that beyond that first platform, which we announced for the bioenzyme, we will have more of the same.
Riikka Timonen: Yes, we would have more of the same. Yes.
Antoine Walter: So on the long run, you would build a full vertical or you would still have external suppliers?
Riikka Timonen: Depends, depends on the chemistry fully.
Antoine Walter: And for you personally, if you look, when 2030, you look back. What tells you that you’ve succeeded?
Riikka Timonen: To me, if we now first go into the renewable water treatment, there is no market today. There is no market for renewable water treatment. The customers are not asking for bio based polymers, for example.
We have had to make the market. There is no regulation. pushing for the municipalities, for example, to select a less fossil based chemistry. So to me, one indicator would be that I see a request for quotation which specifically says that they want to go for a low carbon containing dewatering chemistry, for example, or, or bio based, uh, chemistries would be favoured in the, in the [00:30:00] tendering process.
And then maybe in the new market side, it’s a bit similar, so that, because this, we are entering, we are no, I mean, there’s nobody in these new markets, nobody knows us. So for me, it would be that we start getting, you know, requests, instead of trying to pioneer our way into the market, we start getting, uh, acknowledged as a, as main
Antoine Walter: Your first one is super interesting.
Does that mean that Someone within camera is in charge of convincing the municipalities, convincing the regulator to say, come on. fossil fuel based chemicals in the 21st century. How can we do that as well? Yes,
Riikka Timonen: we have a team in charge of that, but it’s not enough. I mean, we have a small team of these kind of missionaries, let’s put it like that, but what is really needed is that every single.
Gemira sales representative feels comfortable in selling this new offering. Our role is, of course, external, but it’s very much internal as well. So [00:31:00] really training, supporting our sales representatives to feel comfortable in, in argumenting the value of this new offering. So we go a lot together for the first.
second customer visits. If there’s a trial required, we will go there, do the trial together. But as a separate ivory tower team, it will never work. So we really need to engage the, everybody.
Antoine Walter: It’s the kind of internal go to market routes. If you, if you get the train, the trainer approach, and that’s then your guys out there are convinced that they can preach the right message, then you’ve won.
Yeah. Makes a ton of sense. Rika, I look at the time. I have to be cautious about that. Thanks a lot. Thanks. For what you shared in this deep dive and that’s fine for you. I would propose to switch to the rapid fire questions.
Riikka Timonen: Okay.
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Rapid fire questions:
Antoine Walter: What is your definition of innovation in action?
Riikka Timonen: To me, innovation is, is action is that there is a customer involved and [00:32:00] there is a true business case behind it. Innovation can be a lot of, you can innovate a lot of things, but there needs to be some sort of a true value creation element for the customer for it to turn into, into business.
So that to me is innovation in action.
Antoine Walter: What is the most innovative water solution you’ve seen in the past 12 months?
Riikka Timonen: This is a tough one. It goes probably, and I’m not going to name anyone, but it, it, it, it is either the two areas, either it’s a PFAS. Uh, removal and, and destruction. There are a lot of technologies out there and some of them are, are pretty, pretty exciting.
And, uh, the. Other one is probably, I think that this sounds a bit selfish, but I think that our renewable, uh, water treatment chemistries are pretty cool.
Antoine Walter: It’s fair to tout your own horror. I mean, you have to be convinced that you’re making a difference. If not, why do it? So in one word, what is the biggest challenge facing the water industry today?
Riikka Timonen: It’s a boring answer. [00:33:00] Yeah, I mean the, the, the price, the cost of water is not reflecting its true cost with all the externalities. So that’s the sad truth that is holding back the innovation a lot.
Antoine Walter: Who is the water innovator you admire and why?
Riikka Timonen: This I, I don’t have an answer to, sorry.
Antoine Walter: I can give you one, which I didn’t have before this morning.
We had this beautiful presentation of the sponge cities and, and the word sponge concept. Surely, if you see some content going in that direction in the future, you know that it started here because I’m super interested in, into that right now. So yeah, that,
Riikka Timonen: that would be for you. Yeah.
Antoine Walter: Raising a question, giving the answer.
Yeah. That’s a new style. I’ll What’s one single piece of advice you would give to emerging watch entrepreneurs?
Riikka Timonen: Very many of the entrepreneurs that I meet, they are very, very technology focused. They have a neat technology, very often a university spin off, but then when you start to ask about the value proposal, so that is very often, uh, not so clear.
That would be one, one advice. So that [00:34:00] really try to put yourself in your customer’s seat or even a customer’s customer’s seat. So that how will the value be created and how shall it be distributed? And the other, um, uh, aspect is, is what I also see is this kind of a death valley of, of scaling to the commercial.
And, and that’s really, really sad. I personally feel for, we have great ideas. We have great, great technologies, but most of them are able to collect some level of funding to take it even to the pilot scale, but then scaling up. to a full commercial scale of manufacturing. For example, many don’t make it and that’s, that’s sad.
So somehow securing the thinking big from the beginning, but also securing the funding from the beginning, not just for the pilot phase, but really thinking that How am I going to take this to up to the scale, uh, also from funding perspective?
Antoine Walter: What’s a common misconception about water innovation that you like to debunk?
Riikka Timonen: That there is [00:35:00] no innovation.
Antoine Walter: That’s a good one.
Riikka Timonen: Seriously, you know, uh, that, that’s a very, and even here, you know, I’ve, I’ve heard a lot of comments about, you know, being somehow a conservative or a Stagnant and that but there is a lot of innovation here
Antoine Walter: What is one water taboo that you broke or you believe we should break?
Riikka Timonen: I think that the taboo is the the cost of and price of water Discussion because when then we get into the and many companies are careful about this because then we get into the SGD Discussion water clean water is a human right which I believe it is But still somebody needs to pay the bill for for for making sure that there is enough water enough good quality, uh, water for everybody.
So that’s a big taboo that we should talk about more.
Antoine Walter: I think you’re 200 percent right. And the right is to affordable water. The right is not to water. If we just go by the word and affordable means that you pay for it, that it’s not free. So, but yeah, if I get started on that, we’re still here in one hour.
So [00:36:00] I prevent myself for going down that one. And last question, what can and should I do for you?
Riikka Timonen: You should talk more about replacing fossils in the value chain. This is a big trend in other industrial areas that I work with. Replacing plastics, replacing synthetics. I don’t see this discussion happening in the water world at the moment.
Yes, we talk about PFAS. We talk about from kind of how to remove it from, from, from wastewater or drinking water. We talk about carbon footprint. But we don’t really talk about taking the fossils away because that’s already possible. We are dealing with a natural substance, water, and, and natural impurities like sludge, for example.
Those are organic, biobased materials.
Antoine Walter: You’re very right. And you’re very right about the fact that we don’t. speaking off about it because I had the conversation at microphone a couple of times about the water footprint within the various stages, handprint, footprint, the carbon footprint, and same [00:37:00] scope one, scope two, scope three.
We don’t talk so much about the dependency to fossil fuel in some of the processes. So that’s a very good one. I’ll take the nudge. Rika, it’s been a pleasure to have you.
Riikka Timonen: Likewise.
Antoine Walter: If people want to follow up with you, where should I redirect them the best?
Riikka Timonen: They can reach out directly by email or LinkedIn, for example.
And, and Kemira also has a pretty, uh, good, um, web page where there is an easy to reach out as well. Yeah. So
Antoine Walter: as always, the links are in the description, you’ll find. The LinkedIn, the email, that’s up to you, you said it, you’re gonna get the spams. No, no, that’s fine, that’s fine. And the website, I think I made the remark last year, you’re probably the closest to an Apple website I’ve seen in that sector, just because it’s super, super, I mean, anybody has an opinion on that, but I found it interesting to see that approach to being like really, we have three categories and then it goes into very limited amounts of products to be very clear and precise when some go in other directions.
Yeah, yeah. My two cents. Again, thanks a lot, and talk to you soon.
